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Old 01-22-2017, 08:59 PM   #1981
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In respect of your camber issues on the front did you remember to trim 2mm off each BB15 adjuster before measuring the gap between them - it's an easy step to miss and leaves the upper link 4mm too long which gives you huge positive camber.
Sure as heck, that's what's happened. I don't think 2mm will be enough, but it explains the huge discrepancy.

Thanks.

Would still like to see answers to a couple other questions though.

Scott
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Old 01-23-2017, 05:54 AM   #1982
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Quick question- which springs go on the back? right now i have the shorter, gold-colored ones on back.

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Old 01-23-2017, 04:24 PM   #1983
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Quick question- which springs go on the back? right now i have the shorter, gold-colored ones on back.

Wasn't that literally just asked and answered a couple of posts ago? They said gold goes on front.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:19 PM   #1984
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Just finishing my M06 build (first of two). A couple questions come up.

1) Do the gold springs go on the front and silver (softer) on the rear? Would seem correct...the manual "picture" did not adequately match either spring I've got. You'd think since thbuiltey're different colors they could have called out which color...

2) I built the camber link/upper arms and tie rods exactly to the specified length (gap between ball ends). Eyeballing things the rear looks like the camber ended up in the ballpark, zero to maybe slightly negative camber. The front, however, was no where nearly close in either camber or toe. I ended up turning the ball ends together on the camber link and it MIGHT be to zero camber, possibly still a little bit positive, I haven't tried to do anything with the tie rods yet because screwing the camber links in has brought the toe pretty close to zero. Similar experience? Obviously I can disassemble the camber links and cut some material off the backside to get more adjustment...provided the threads are not bottomed out in the end.

3) I was surprised (well...maybe not) that the first M-Chassis with adjustable camber doesn't come with turnbuckles. I know these end up being packaged with a sharp eye on cost, but come on Tamiya...I'd pay a couple bucks more for the ease of adjustment. What are others doing for turnbuckle links?

4) What are folks using for servos?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Scott
Hi Scott,
it seems question 3 and 4 have not been answered yet.
You can use different turnbuckle links from Tamiya. Rears have to be 3x18mm, front I have to look into my manual.
For the rear, the original part no. is not available, correct.
But identical is:9805761, or you can use Alu ones in blue or black:54247 or 84020.
For the servo: Mid class is fine for me. Iīm using a Savöx 1251 since 2011, no worries, and nice with the low profile.

Br,
Matthias

Will also do a race on the weekend, and digging out my M06 again. Strong competitors with hot M05īs, but will not worry about result but do some testing with tires, shock length etc. Need some testing input.
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Old 01-25-2017, 02:34 AM   #1985
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Will also do a race on the weekend, and digging out my M06 again. Strong competitors with hot M05īs, but will not worry about result but do some testing with tires, shock length etc. Need some testing input.
We had the first race of the 2017 Tamiyacup last weekend in Belgium. Because I purchased the MX5 body last year I drove the RWD M06. Made it with very clean heats to Q3 between a full field of M05V2's.

The setup on new mediumgrip carpet was mainly standard, Yellow springs all around, no swaybars, 1k in SpecR diff, S-grip medium insert rear and A-slick hard insert front, ride height 5mm.

The 2017 Belgium rules allow the CarsonCup motor as well as the Carson 16T BL motor. The fastest guys all use the good-old Carsoncup.

In the final I could not hold against the M05's mainly because they could hold their speed better in two long radius turns.
Finaly I was happy with P5, and even more the way the M06 drove. Very stable and I could point it where I want.
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:15 AM   #1986
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Keep us posted on that car. It is very sexy!
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Old 01-25-2017, 11:22 AM   #1987
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We had the first race of the 2017 Tamiyacup last weekend in Belgium. Because I purchased the MX5 body last year I drove the RWD M06. Made it with very clean heats to Q3 between a full field of M05V2's.

The setup on new mediumgrip carpet was mainly standard, Yellow springs all around, no swaybars, 1k in SpecR diff, S-grip medium insert rear and A-slick hard insert front, ride height 5mm.

The 2017 Belgium rules allow the CarsonCup motor as well as the Carson 16T BL motor. The fastest guys all use the good-old Carsoncup.

In the final I could not hold against the M05's mainly because they could hold their speed better in two long radius turns.
Finaly I was happy with P5, and even more the way the M06 drove. Very stable and I could point it where I want.
Very cool Erik Jan, Congrats to your result!
And very interesting infos, too! With medium insert you mean the hard foam type, not the extra hard?
And what type of battery do you use? Iīd think, that the Carson dragster 3 16t sets are quite hot and with good r.p.m., so Iīd think to be little lost with a Cup machine. For sure, the high torque is more easy with an FWD Mini.

Weīll test this year besides our spec. some brushless alternatives for our Mini-series, as more and more racers scream for Brushless. But thats a prety hard decision in my eyes. 21,5t Brushless with no spec motor and terrible timing seems difficult, Carson sets have quite high power which you donīt really need in a Mini. And to get a comparable rpm to the good old cup machine, you have to choose even a more kV set, which has more rpm but even more increase in torque. Maybe Tamiya should think about a speed gear set, which ha Tamiya quality.
Discussion opened! Any tips for brushless alternatives? Problem is, we search something that is available min. the next 3 years, as we do not like to change the spec. every year.
Kind regards from Germany,
Matthias
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Old 01-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #1988
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What happened to the 13T EZrun? Too much power?
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:50 PM   #1989
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Old 01-25-2017, 02:30 PM   #1990
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What happened to the 13T EZrun? Too much power?
No, as itīs a 380 Motor itīs still perfect in my eyes.
But itīs quite rare on the market, and I canīt see a successor for the Combo?

@ Raman:
Thanks for the offer!
Maybe I come back to it in the end!

Br,
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:08 AM   #1991
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With medium insert you mean the hard foam type, not the extra hard?
And what type of battery do you use?
Medium inserts are for me the stock ones, feels quite soft. In the A slicks I used the hard ones. I also tried the M grips on front with extra hard inserts and glued sidewalls. Had a little bit more steering, but the car keeps steering on corner exit, with the A-slick the car was easier to drive. Note the carpet is new and has medium grip. It is not the ETS carpet.

I use shorty's, about 30mm foam behind, so in front of the chassis.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:25 AM   #1992
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Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
Weīll test this year besides our spec. some brushless alternatives for our Mini-series, as more and more racers scream for Brushless. But thats a prety hard decision in my eyes. 21,5t Brushless with no spec motor and terrible timing seems difficult, Carson sets have quite high power which you donīt really need in a Mini. And to get a comparable rpm to the good old cup machine, you have to choose even a more kV set, which has more rpm but even more increase in torque. Maybe Tamiya should think about a speed gear set, which ha Tamiya quality.
Discussion opened! Any tips for brushless alternatives? Problem is, we search something that is available min. the next 3 years, as we do not like to change the spec. every year.
This weekend we could compare the new 16T Carson sensorless against the old silvercan CarsonCup for the first time in real race conditions. And the €10 (+€20 speedo) brushed Carsoncup won over the €130 brushless set!
The brushed motor pickes up speed much smoother, and is very easy to drive. The brushless 16T was just a little bit faster on the straight, but as it is not so smooth, the extra topspeed (only a very few km's) was lost in the infield.
I have used the Hobbywing 13T EZrun in the past, and that motor is much faster and a lot smoother than the 16T Carson. I still think the 13T EZrun is the best M-chassis motor for outdoor racing.

But still the cheapest way for the M-chassis competition is how the Tamiyacup in the Netherlands do it. Handout Carson cup motors. You pay €10 before the first race, and it is your after the last race. Between the races the organization stores the motors. Still havenot seen a brushless alternative for this price
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:50 AM   #1993
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Wasn't that literally just asked and answered a couple of posts ago? They said gold goes on front.
yes it was. sorry... i skimmed. thanks


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Keep us posted on that car. It is very sexy!
thanks, will do.
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:53 AM   #1994
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This weekend we could compare the new 16T Carson sensorless against the old silvercan CarsonCup for the first time in real race conditions. And the €10 (+€20 speedo) brushed Carsoncup won over the €130 brushless set!
The brushed motor pickes up speed much smoother, and is very easy to drive. The brushless 16T was just a little bit faster on the straight, but as it is not so smooth, the extra topspeed (only a very few km's) was lost in the infield.
I have used the Hobbywing 13T EZrun in the past, and that motor is much faster and a lot smoother than the 16T Carson. I still think the 13T EZrun is the best M-chassis motor for outdoor racing.

But still the cheapest way for the M-chassis competition is how the Tamiyacup in the Netherlands do it. Handout Carson cup motors. You pay €10 before the first race, and it is your after the last race. Between the races the organization stores the motors. Still havenot seen a brushless alternative for this price
Erik Jan,
that is exactly the info I searched for!!!
My thoughts were the same, especially about driveability of the Brushless systems, not only in RWD. My collegues complain on a high level.
In our last race, we had in the finals 4 guys with the same best laptime, only differing a few hundreds. 1 M06 (not me) and 3 M05īs.
So in my eyes, the spread of the Cup machines is also not that big.
Everyone thinks, with brushless the spread is lower, but I also read in other forums, that they took out some brushless engines, as the rpmīs differed too much from different batches. So thatīs somehow insane, to replace the cheap silver can, and jump onto the way more expensive Brushless wave.
I have to say, I like Brushless in my TC, and would never go back. But for the fun class Mini, there is no real good brushless system on the market yet. (in my eyes).
We also do not want to increase topspeed above the Cup machine speeds, as most of our tracks are relatively small, except 2 of them. Speed level is just the right compromise for us. That said, the 13t Ezrun is maybe also not the alternative we search for...

Thank you for your review!
Matthias
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:08 AM   #1995
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Medium inserts are for me the stock ones, feels quite soft. In the A slicks I used the hard ones. I also tried the M grips on front with extra hard inserts and glued sidewalls. Had a little bit more steering, but the car keeps steering on corner exit, with the A-slick the car was easier to drive. Note the carpet is new and has medium grip. It is not the ETS carpet.

I use shorty's, about 30mm foam behind, so in front of the chassis.
Thanks also for your tire review Erik Jan!

As Iīm not limited to Tamiya rules, Iīll also give Ramans tires a go on the weekend. I have some Pit Shimizu in 27 and 30 shores, equipped with the Sweep inserts. But will also test some S-grips again in 60D, with harder inserts to limit the sidewall deformation. This is the only problem I have with the current S-Grips from Tamiya. Rubber is long lasting and very grippy, but you can have bad effects of tucking the sidewall under, like the Mercedes A-class in the elk-test back in the day!
So gluing the sidewall is our daily business in our Mini-class, even on rear tires sometimes.
What I noticed last time: It helped to have front tires with soft (blue) foam inserts on front, as the sidewall is deformating very easy, which leads to kind of a wave in the tread and reduces contact patch of the tire on front, depending on the side load the tire gets. I had terrible understeer in last years race on ETS carpet on Saturday, but when the grip was there on Sunday, the M06 was dialed, and you could "adjust" grip by saucing more or less on the front. Some of my fellow racers also drive weak iserts on the M05 because of that. But it doesnīt replace the gluing completely, I have to admit.
Gear diff wise, Iīm still running 2 or 3 k in rear 3 Racing diff, I just forgot what I filled. From the action, itīs not as tight as Ramanīs ball diff setting posted some days before. Hereīs potential for more, especially on carpet. My other M06 friends drive 7k up to 10k with sweeps on a grippy carpet and small circuit...
Maybe you found these infos helpful, too.
Br,
Matthias
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