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Old 11-22-2014, 12:38 AM   #1621
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Do you CA glue the outer edge of both fronts and rears? I noticed in one of your pics it looks like fronts have a bead of CA glue on them(?) Running on high grip carpet. Car is quick but would be a traction roll contest winner. I really have to tiptoe the tighter corners.
Hi Hispeedguy,
you are right. Upper edges and complete sidewall are glued.
As epecially the S-Grips in the newer batches have a very soft compound,
sidewalls are too weak to take the side forces on high grip carpet without tucking under. Maybe thatīs also the reason, why Tamiya released a super hard foam insert (Tamiya 54590). I just oticed this week, usually I use the hard 53255 since some years.
You should try the glue, it will cure your problems, Iīm sure.
The M06 is the "M" which is traction rolling at last, after M03, and M05, thatīs my experience with similar conditions and unglued side walls.
If you look 2 or 3 pages back, you can find my LWB carpet setup, where I also mention the glued sidewalls...

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Old 11-22-2014, 12:48 AM   #1622
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Laugh at the idea all you want, I just fiddled a bit again and I think I can get it sorted, adjustable toe using front suspension parts in the rear. I like it.

Cheers,

Hugo
Hugo, I didnīt laugh atyour idea, just that you had to built and rebuilt it.
But thatīs how good ideas develop! In fact youīre not alone, and the new Xray has this possibility , too.
If you choose the toe rod fixing point clever, you can get toe in, when the suspension compresses, like on a real multi link axle.
So let us know your outcome, Iīm really curious about your idea!
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:07 AM   #1623
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I forgot the smiley behind my remark, no harm done!

Basically you can fit the front suspension in the rear, too, and make adjustable toe. Varying the hight if the toe control arm can make make the toe vary with compression as you say. But when you do, the damper can only fit perfectly vertical, and the 'steering-' arm needs to be curved around the damper. It can be done. I think however it will not be a huge improvement, as you all have the damper as much laid down as possible.

I just fitted a fan as per your suggestion, I still had one laying around. I also fitted the rear uprights standard again, with the large toe in. Basically the car is back to standard. I will order the suspesion axles so I can lay the dampers down. My order with all wheels, inserts and tires came in, so I have a lot of glueing to do. Do you use thick CA for the side walls?

Cheers,

Hugo
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:34 PM   #1624
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Originally Posted by HugoW View Post
I forgot the smiley behind my remark, no harm done!

Basically you can fit the front suspension in the rear, too, and make adjustable toe. Varying the hight if the toe control arm can make make the toe vary with compression as you say. But when you do, the damper can only fit perfectly vertical, and the 'steering-' arm needs to be curved around the damper. It can be done. I think however it will not be a huge improvement, as you all have the damper as much laid down as possible.

I just fitted a fan as per your suggestion, I still had one laying around. I also fitted the rear uprights standard again, with the large toe in. Basically the car is back to standard. I will order the suspesion axles so I can lay the dampers down. My order with all wheels, inserts and tires came in, so I have a lot of glueing to do. Do you use thick CA for the side walls?

Cheers,

Hugo
Hi Hugo,
learned a lot this weekend again, I will post my results today.
From my new theories, you are on the right way with trying different foams.
I use std. CA for the side walls, but Iīcareful during applying to not touch the profile...

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Old 11-24-2014, 04:49 AM   #1625
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Hi guys,

does the wheelbase matter? I just wondered at all the free space in ruebiracer's car... And in Raman's racer... You all run longer cars than mine. The Beetle uses 239mm wheelbase and the Alfa 225mm, right? I have only 210mm with the Alpine. Would that make a difference?

Cheers,

Hugo
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:23 AM   #1626
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The longer wheelbase will give you straight line stability. The shorter wheelbase will give you better turning.

I would say the short wheelbase would probably be best for M06. I'm an Alfisti, so I have to run the GTA I've also spent a lot of time and dedication to make sure the car performs well with the Alfa body. Initially I was as frustrated as you, my car would spin out with ease lol.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:16 PM   #1627
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The longer wheelbase will give you straight line stability. The shorter wheelbase will give you better turning.

I would say the short wheelbase would probably be best for M06. I'm an Alfisti, so I have to run the GTA I've also spent a lot of time and dedication to make sure the car performs well with the Alfa body. Initially I was as frustrated as you, my car would spin out with ease lol.
I go with Raman,
as I want to run my Beetle, thereīs no choice of wheelbase for me. Adapting the setting to the body is the goal.

Have to admit, that this wasnīt perfectly reached last Race Sunday!
I run the same setup I was using in Octobre, but I had to mount a new tire set during the qualifiers, which worked for one on Saturday. Sunday morning a very high grip came up, and all of the M-guys had teir problems to prevent roll overs. I switched back to my old S-grips in front, which helped to make the car controllable again. Without them, The new tres hooked in and the rear end was standing up, and as soon as the inner tire lifted, I spin out. (At least no real roll over...)
With the old tires in front and some respect I could do good laptimes, but was not able to push consistently. So I lost the Pole position to an M05V2, which was setup really well.
In the end, I came 2 times 2nd and could reach the 2nd place. Despite of the problems, we had great fights and in many laps I was faster, but made in the end a mistake due to the edgy handling in some corners.
I think, the key were the tires. The winner car ran also S-Grips, but with the soft blue inserts. The tires were screaming in every corner, but he had no traction roll. Me and 6 other M05īs and an M03 were trying to fight traction roll. I think, the tire edge is supported by the hard inserts so much, that itīs really hooking in the carpet. With the softer insert, the lateral force reduces, as the tire edge can bend into the weaker foam, so that the tire gets earlier on the glued sidewall and prevent excessive grip and thus roll over.
Itīs just a theory, but pressing some tires on the table seems to support this.
Like Hugo, I will order some tire sets and different inserts, as I havent run the weak ones since years...

Open for your thoughts on the tires,
Kind regards,
MAtthias
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:26 PM   #1628
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Thanks for the info. I raced the Cleveland Warmup race at CRC Raceway last Sunday and had better luck running kit tires on the front and S grips on rear. No traction rolling although the car would slide the nose at times resulting in lost time in the corners whoa-ing it up. I'll try the CA glue on S grips at the next club race. I managed a 3rd place out of 8 cars on Sunday, my best outing w/ the M06 so far.
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
Hi Hispeedguy,
you are right. Upper edges and complete sidewall are glued.
As epecially the S-Grips in the newer batches have a very soft compound,
sidewalls are too weak to take the side forces on high grip carpet without tucking under. Maybe thatīs also the reason, why Tamiya released a super hard foam insert (Tamiya 54590). I just oticed this week, usually I use the hard 53255 since some years.
You should try the glue, it will cure your problems, Iīm sure.
The M06 is the "M" which is traction rolling at last, after M03, and M05, thatīs my experience with similar conditions and unglued side walls.
If you look 2 or 3 pages back, you can find my LWB carpet setup, where I also mention the glued sidewalls...

Br,
Matthias
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:12 PM   #1629
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Originally Posted by hispeedguy View Post
Thanks for the info. I raced the Cleveland Warmup race at CRC Raceway last Sunday and had better luck running kit tires on the front and S grips on rear. No traction rolling although the car would slide the nose at times resulting in lost time in the corners whoa-ing it up. I'll try the CA glue on S grips at the next club race. I managed a 3rd place out of 8 cars on Sunday, my best outing w/ the M06 so far.
Cheers,
Jim
Congrats Jim,
sounds like a good start for you!
If the Radials give too much push, you can also try some M-Grips on the front.
Did that in March on a different, very worn carpet track. Gave me also some security against roll and spin out on that track.

Good luck for the next races,
Matthias
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:06 AM   #1630
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Thanks for all the info, guys. I am almost done glueing al tires onto the rims, and covering the side walls of the softer tires in CA. Just waiting for the last pack of soft inserts to arrive, probably tomorrow. Note; I marked the insert hardness on the inside of the rim with a permanent marker. You can read on the tire which type it is, but after glueing the lot together you cannot tell what insert is in there anymore other than squeezing them and guessing. Marking it on the rim is easier...

I will now make a small tire rack for my collection.

Cheers,

Hugo

Last edited by HugoW; 11-27-2014 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 12-15-2014, 03:34 AM   #1631
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Hi guys,

unfortunately no real track time yet, but I did some outside testing and I feel the suspension shafts, repositioning the rear dampers, makes a positive difference. I seen those shafts are available for the front, too.Do you use these?

Cheers,

Hugo
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:03 AM   #1632
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Originally Posted by HugoW View Post
Hi guys,

unfortunately no real track time yet, but I did some outside testing and I feel the suspension shafts, repositioning the rear dampers, makes a positive difference. I seen those shafts are available for the front, too.Do you use these?

Cheers,

Hugo
Hi Hugo,
I was keen on your experiences after the changes. Thanks for the update!
I never used the axle hinge pins on the front, only in my M05 Pro V2.
M06 always kit hole in front. Didnīt see an M06 run with it in front so far.
If you do, maybe you need to go softer with the spring to keep your current setup. (ratio to the axle)

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Old 12-19-2014, 10:05 AM   #1633
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Well, last night at CRC Raceway I managed to get my first A Main win w/ the M06 (Silvia S15). The last couple weeks the car has been getting better and better. I kept the kit tires up front and S grips on the rear BUT what I did do was change up on how much SXT I applied on the fronts and rears. Oddly enough, I found even with minimal changes, I could see it on the track in each round. Round 1 I coat all but the outer rib on front and entire tire on rear. Round 2 I move the SXT in 1 rib on front and in 1 rib on rear. Same for the Main. As the grip on the track comes up, the car stays consistent in the corners without traction rolling. Flouro-range springs up front, blue in rear.
I did replace the stock shock towers with the Tamiya Graphite ones. I haven't changed the shock positions yet since the car seems to be pretty spot on right now.
All in all, loving the M06 :-)
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:36 AM   #1634
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Originally Posted by hispeedguy View Post
Well, last night at CRC Raceway I managed to get my first A Main win w/ the M06 (Silvia S15). The last couple weeks the car has been getting better and better. I kept the kit tires up front and S grips on the rear BUT what I did do was change up on how much SXT I applied on the fronts and rears. Oddly enough, I found even with minimal changes, I could see it on the track in each round. Round 1 I coat all but the outer rib on front and entire tire on rear. Round 2 I move the SXT in 1 rib on front and in 1 rib on rear. Same for the Main. As the grip on the track comes up, the car stays consistent in the corners without traction rolling. Flouro-range springs up front, blue in rear.
I did replace the stock shock towers with the Tamiya Graphite ones. I haven't changed the shock positions yet since the car seems to be pretty spot on right now.
All in all, loving the M06 :-)
Congratulations!
Great result! I have one question regarding the fluor red/orange springs you use for the front: Are they the long spring lenght, so do you compress them by attaching to the short M-chassis dampers?
I wish you even more fun with the M06!

Br,
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:55 AM   #1635
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Well done hispeedguy! Sounds like you have got the hang of it.

Today I will return to the indoor track I failed at the first time. The tires are changed to tge recommended m-grips, and this morning I decided to charge the big lipos too. I use shorties in my TT-01 to move the ESC to the side of the battery, so the car is better balanced. After your advises here and trying on the local skate track, it is clear the extra weight of the full size pack (about 150 grams more) does not hurt the speed, and does assist in the rear traction. I will report later, my minicam on my cap is packed, too. I might have some video to share.

I do consider to buy the shafts for the front suspension, too. With the current suspension set-up I cannot lower the car as low as I can in the rear. I like to be able to lower the car too far and adjust it back up, not being unable to go lower.

Hugo
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