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Old 11-02-2014, 05:21 PM   #1591
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@Raman; just outside on the wet brick road. Not the preferred surface, I know, but still it accellerates like mad. Tire prep of any sort is not allowed in the Cup I race.

@Pygmy; I will race all venues of the Tamiya Cup, I have no home track. I hope to do some testing at the Lelystad outdoor track, and the Vianen indoor track. That indoor track will be the only indoor coming season, the first race of the Cup.

Hugo
Noted. I'll be testing my M05 at RC Paradise (Uithoorn) hopefully this friday or the next. People will probably shout at me a lot.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:13 PM   #1592
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That's why I initially bought it. I just don't like fwd vehicles.
I had actually converted my M03 to rwd.
I really do enjoy running the M06 though.
M03 to RWD? do tell. I kept thinking with enough money and less sanity you could pilfer the TA05 M-Four RWD portion. So please, do tell :-)

I bought an M05 on the cheap to compete locally as only FWD is allowed for carpet racing. Of course the class dried up by my third outing.

Sooo I have a pretty Alfa MiTo bodied M05 with no racing to do. And I have this sick fantasy about making a front-engined RWD Mini. Which I will of course make into a Miata/MX-5 or something (I really like to maintain drivetrain layout to the 1:1 car).


p.s. my only two carpet cars are a F103 & M05, that transition from MR w/rear braking&drive to MF w/front braking&drive is a bit much for my noobness
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Old 11-10-2014, 04:10 PM   #1593
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Drag bake is the only type of braking you can use on rear motor, rear wheel drive.
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Old 11-10-2014, 06:03 PM   #1594
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M03 to RWD? do tell. I kept thinking with enough money and less sanity you could pilfer the TA05 M-Four RWD portion. So please, do tell :-)
It's actually fairly straightforward. You swap suspension between the front and the rear. Then you mount the servo in the chassis where it would have been mounted for the MSC back in the day. I followed the instructions from rc-mini.net, but that site is no longer up.

Here's where someone else did a conversion to theirs. http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12704
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:22 AM   #1595
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Hmmm, first outing today on an indoor track. S-grips rear, H-grips front, car set up ā la Raman's setup a few pages back. Including the rear stabiliser. The car was horrid to drive. I feel like buying an M-05. It was very oversteered. I couldn't make the corner after the long straight, middle section I had to go very slow to keep the rear end rear. It was sliding all over the place as soon as I went over half throttle. The 05s were having a ball. I had good speed at the straight, but I had to wait with adding power until the car was dead straight. Slight angle and it would slide. I did get good control of the slides, but it was not raceable. What did I do wrong?

Cheers,

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Old 11-16-2014, 11:06 AM   #1596
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I don't if your trying to make your car TCS legal, but these tires made a night and day difference for my M06. The come in various degrees of hardness.
http://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/produ....asp?p_id=1848
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:37 AM   #1597
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Originally Posted by HugoW View Post
Hmmm, first outing today on an indoor track. S-grips rear, H-grips front, car set up ā la Raman's setup a few pages back. . . . .
I haven't heard of H-grips . . . .

I race on medium to high grip carpet. I run the S-grips front and rear.
My buddy runs S-grips on the rear and kit tires on the front. This gives him a little push which helps prevent the tail happy problem you were having.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #1598
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I haven't heard of H-grips . . . .

I race on medium to high grip carpet. I run the S-grips front and rear.
My buddy runs S-grips on the rear and kit tires on the front. This gives him a little push which helps prevent the tail happy problem you were having.
M chassis threaded tyres come in S, M and H. The H doesn't say H on it.. it doesn't say anything lol
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:49 AM   #1599
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Originally Posted by HugoW View Post
Hmmm, first outing today on an indoor track. S-grips rear, H-grips front, car set up ā la Raman's setup a few pages back. Including the rear stabiliser. The car was horrid to drive. I feel like buying an M-05. It was very oversteered. I couldn't make the corner after the long straight, middle section I had to go very slow to keep the rear end rear. It was sliding all over the place as soon as I went over half throttle. The 05s were having a ball. I had good speed at the straight, but I had to wait with adding power until the car was dead straight. Slight angle and it would slide. I did get good control of the slides, but it was not raceable. What did I do wrong?

Cheers,

Hugo
Hugo, don't give up so easily. It takes a little bit of patience to get the car dialed in. You need to add weight transfer to the back, to gain more traction. I run my car with the R spec axle weights which unfortunately are not available separately.

Try the following:
1. Front shock: make sure there is no droop. The arms should be almost parallel to chassis. You do this by adding spacers in front shocks

2. Move battery back position to back as far as possible.

3. Try different rear upright for toe in.. which one are you running now?

4. What spring and oil are you running? Blue / 60?
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:50 AM   #1600
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Yeah, S rear and code-less = H grips in the front, as per the kit. I know I am not a good driver, but this was terrible. I raced my TT-01, too, and although I have to get used to such a tight track (only drove outside so far), it had plenty grip on the 51023 radials. I think about reducing droop in the rear. I now have a lot, in the rear, almost non in the front. Maybe bigger sway bar...

[EDIT] Oh I'm not giving up, yet, but the thought crossed my mind... I have the droop at the front almost zero. I will reposition the ESC so I can move the battery back. I have the stock uprights, big angle. I don't know what oil, I use the oil that came with the 50746 CVA kit.[/EDIT]

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Old 11-16-2014, 12:48 PM   #1601
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I just moved the ESC up onto the battery holder, so i can slide the shorty lipo back and forth over the whole length of the original battery hole. All the way in the front, the way I drove today, the weight at the back wheels is 732 grams. All the way to the back, the weigth on the rear wheels is 772 grams. Might make a bit of difference, 40 grams from the front to the rear.

I cannot find the original kit oil weight anywhere... So I don't know what I run, to be honest. What is advised?

[EDIT]Another question; I have recently fitted the M-05 bal dif. It seems pretty stiff. The gear diff ran very light. Shouldn't a rear diff run light? If it takes more power to differenciate (English??) it might brake loose more easily instead, the inner wheel lose grip rather than change speed.[/EDIT]

[EDIT2]I just read someone who said his S-grisp were polished smooth by carpet. I think this is what happened to my car, yesterday. He runs M-grips with soft inserts for that reason. Worth a try, I think[/EDIT2]

Hugo

Last edited by HugoW; 11-17-2014 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 11-17-2014, 01:19 PM   #1602
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[QUOTE=HugoW;13661027]I just moved the ESC up onto the battery holder, so i can slide the shorty lipo back and forth over the whole length of the original battery hole. All the way in the front, the way I drove today, the weight at the back wheels is 732 grams. All the way to the back, the weigth on the rear wheels is 772 grams. Might make a bit of difference, 40 grams from the front to the rear.

I cannot find the original kit oil weight anywhere... So I don't know what I run, to be honest. What is advised?

[EDIT]Another question; I have recently fitted the M-05 bal dif. It seems pretty stiff. The gear diff ran very light. Shouldn't a rear diff run light? If it takes more power to differenciate (English??) it might brake loose more easily instead, the inner wheel lose grip rather than change speed.[/EDIT]

Hugo,
I go with Raman and say: Donīt give up too early!
But I know what you feel, in my first TEC race 2011 they wiped also the floor with me and my M06.

One important info is missing for me: Did you drive on carpet or indoor tarmac?
The newer batches of S-grips are quite soft compared to older batches, this was discussed also in the Mini cooper thread several times by Granpa and others. If you drive on carpet, there is a high need to glue the sidewalls, as with the weak tire sides it deforms easily especially on carpet and the tire side is "tucked under", which causes loss of grip in the corners. This leads to a unpredictable and very bad driving behaviour...

So let us know some more infos, so we can help you better!
Yellow oil (Tamiya soft = 400)?
Piston holes?
ground clearance?

But most important for me at the moment: carpet or not, and grip level...

Hold on,
Matthias
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Last edited by ruebiracer; 11-17-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-17-2014, 01:37 PM   #1603
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Hi Matthias,

It was carpet, mix of various types, and I just read on the Dutch rc forum an F1 drifer had a hard time finding rear grip, too. While he had griprolls with the same car on 'competition'-carpet. So basically, my tire choice was bad. Should have used M-grips in the rear, it seems the S's don't work on carpet, especially not on this carpet.
Ground clearance was minimal, arms level with the chassis bottom. I cannot lower the front anymore without weighing it down or cutting springs.
Dampers with 2 holes in the rear, 3 in the front. Kit oil, no clue still.
Springs blue in the rear, yellow front.

Hugo
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:20 PM   #1604
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Hi Matthias,

It was carpet, mix of various types, and I just read on the Dutch rc forum an F1 drifer had a hard time finding rear grip, too. While he had griprolls with the same car on 'competition'-carpet. So basically, my tire choice was bad. Should have used M-grips in the rear, it seems the S's don't work on carpet, especially not on this carpet.
Ground clearance was minimal, arms level with the chassis bottom. I cannot lower the front anymore without weighing it down or cutting springs.
Dampers with 2 holes in the rear, 3 in the front. Kit oil, no clue still.
Springs blue in the rear, yellow front.

Hugo
Hi Hugo,
thatīs good news!
On very few carpets, the M-Grip performs better than the S-grip, that was my opinion so far, too. Nowadays I tend to say, the S-grip is always best, when the side wall is glued. The M-grip has a stiffer compound, and can take the side forces better without tucking under so early. I think so, because in the times I didnīt glue the walls, I also used on carpet the Mīs instead of the Sī, because they gave me stability in the corners. What I never understood: With the Mīs I couldnīt accelerate in a straight line from zero, they lacked a bit traction, while the S-Grips tracked damn straight and got better acceleration, but lacked stability in the corners.
Your ground glearance seems o.k.
Go softer with the springs, like red front, yellow rear, to find traction.
Try the M-grips on your carpet in rear and compare to the S-grips. Before using both, cyano the side walls all the way up until they touch already the upper end of the outer profil block.
Use tire sauce, full rear, half front for the start.
Try 3 hole pistons in rear, keep the 400 kit oil for the moment.
Make your own axle weights like Joel (rccartipps) for his daughter some pages back, using tire balancing weights (5 to 10gr). Bend them and glue them on the knuckle at the bearing area. (I hope this is not forbidden in your cup).
If you still lacking grip, try to run a soft stabi front, and none in the rear.
On a very old carpet on a very small track I went one time to red springs rear and yellow front to find traction. (Backup solution. )

And lay the rear shocks completely in on the upper end.

And make sure, that the rear diff is not too strong, when the grip is very low.
It shouldnīt be more tight then the kit diff with AW grease for the start.

The M06 needs some more testing time in the beginning Iīd say, but is also consistent to the same track condition. Make good notes on a setup sheet of all little adjustments. If you come back to the same track, the setup will work again. Take your time and think about this thread. Thereīs always a solution for the problem out here!
I also have the new M05Pro V2, but I can say, that it needs some test time too. I had a lot of problems to get it going on carpet, because the rear end was totally loose, you couldnīt even roll through a curve with half throttle, it spin out 10 times more than a RWD Mini. Surprisingly, the first lap the car was driveable, until the tires build up real grip. Reason was the S-Grip problem again. Since I glued the side walls and on the M05 even more up into the first profile block (1/3rd), it is a new car.

From my impression, many racers gave up on the M06 quite early in 2011,
because they were too much in love with the driving style of their FWDīs and lack of success. But later on, some single guys showed up with very good results using an M06, and on some races they took the FWDīs 0,5 s or more per lap.
So, thereīs a kind of rebirth for the M06 in some areas, which is nice.

I wish you success,
and let us know your experiences!

Br,
Matthias
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Old 11-18-2014, 12:47 PM   #1605
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Hi Hugo,
thatīs good news!
To a certain extend it is, it does crush my ego. I was offered a set of wheels and M-grip tires by a local driver with M-06 experience, and I refused, 'cause I thought S-s would grip better. That was pretty stupid of me, in heignsite, he knew the track and the car. Anyway...


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On very few carpets, the M-Grip performs better than the S-grip, that was my opinion so far, too. Nowadays I tend to say, the S-grip is always best, when the side wall is glued. The M-grip has a stiffer compound, and can take the side forces better without tucking under so early. I think so, because in the times I didnīt glue the walls, I also used on carpet the Mīs instead of the Sī, because they gave me stability in the corners. What I never understood: With the Mīs I couldnīt accelerate in a straight line from zero, they lacked a bit traction, while the S-Grips tracked damn straight and got better acceleration, but lacked stability in the corners.
I have ordered a stack of rims, tires and inserts, which unfortunately are stuck in shipment somewhere. They will arrive... I want to make:
Two H-grips with soft inserts,
Two H-grips with hard inserts,
Two M-grips with soft inserts,
Two M-grips with hard inserts,
Two S-grips with soft inserts,
Two S-grips with hard inserts,
Since most set-ups I have seen / read about use different front to rear combinations, the set above should make me a nice lot to chose from.

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And lay the rear shocks completely in on the upper end.
I don't understand that comment. I speak German, too, if that's easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
And make sure, that the rear diff is not too strong, when the grip is very low.
It shouldnīt be more tight then the kit diff with AW grease for the start.
Yeah, I figured that. But first we need to get the tires sorted.

I will keep track of all changes, and make one at a time. And I might listen to local drivers when they give advise and offer help next time... Next possibility to go to this track is December 7th. So if Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet don't kidnap me and take me away to Spain, that will probably be the next test.

Cheers,

Hugo
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