No 2011 Roar Electric Paved Nationals? Maybe
08-10-2010, 09:56 PM
#91
We can go on forever about what ifs about stock vs mod. You guys wanna slow down, then run stock. But don't recommend slowing down the class I like to race. I'm not trying to lobby to speed up stock to my liking, so why should you guys slow down mod? Either try to drive the power, or don't, just drive in your comfort level. 
And if you people are so sure that your whatever.5 motor is as fast as mod, run it. Mod is considered open now. Again, run your comfort level. 13.5 down to 4.0. That should make mod/open more inviting, but it does not seem to.
And if you people are so sure that your whatever.5 motor is as fast as mod, run it. Mod is considered open now. Again, run your comfort level. 13.5 down to 4.0. That should make mod/open more inviting, but it does not seem to.
08-11-2010, 06:28 AM
#92
The statement that stock is more expensive than mod is laughable.
I have run both classes and mod is much harder on everything than stock is.
And to the people that feel the need to buy motors constantly to be fast in stock are just using motors as an excuse as to why they are slow.
I qualified 3rd at the snowbirds in 13.5 with a motor that was almost 2 years old at that point. At every race last year I ran a duo 1 13.5 from the first batch of them that ever came out. Brushless motors are are so close right now that they are probably the least important aspect of a top drivers racing game. Setup, driving, gearing and speedo setup are all more important.
Mod, eats diffs, eats cvds, eats belts, wears plastic, and due to wrecking more in mod, which all of us do, you break more stuff from simply hitting more stuff at a faster speed.
I am all for mod as well as 17.5 expert right now but simply telling people to run mod or stop racing is going to cause people to do just that.... Stop racing.
Its hard enough for me to drive a mod speed car for 6 minutes without blowing it up, someone without much experience would have a much harder time.
And Ruben, I wasnt around in 1999 but I know that when I look at the list for the snowbirds in 05 there are like 13 mains of stock foam and 15 heats of combined 19 turn foam. That doesnt seem so bad to me.
I don't think its the middle class killing Touring racing I think its bad decisions in general and peoples lack of wanting to get better through hard work and practice that is killing onroad.
I have run both classes and mod is much harder on everything than stock is.
And to the people that feel the need to buy motors constantly to be fast in stock are just using motors as an excuse as to why they are slow.
I qualified 3rd at the snowbirds in 13.5 with a motor that was almost 2 years old at that point. At every race last year I ran a duo 1 13.5 from the first batch of them that ever came out. Brushless motors are are so close right now that they are probably the least important aspect of a top drivers racing game. Setup, driving, gearing and speedo setup are all more important.
Mod, eats diffs, eats cvds, eats belts, wears plastic, and due to wrecking more in mod, which all of us do, you break more stuff from simply hitting more stuff at a faster speed.
I am all for mod as well as 17.5 expert right now but simply telling people to run mod or stop racing is going to cause people to do just that.... Stop racing.
Its hard enough for me to drive a mod speed car for 6 minutes without blowing it up, someone without much experience would have a much harder time.
And Ruben, I wasnt around in 1999 but I know that when I look at the list for the snowbirds in 05 there are like 13 mains of stock foam and 15 heats of combined 19 turn foam. That doesnt seem so bad to me.
I don't think its the middle class killing Touring racing I think its bad decisions in general and peoples lack of wanting to get better through hard work and practice that is killing onroad.
08-11-2010, 08:09 AM
#93
For example, in the UK, even at club level 99% of sedan electric is rubber tyres. The occasional club uses foam.
That just leaves the motor to be decided on.
I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
That just leaves the motor to be decided on.
I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
08-11-2010, 08:14 AM
#94
For example, in the UK, even at club level 99% of sedan electric is rubber tyres. The occasional club uses foam.
That just leaves the motor to be decided on.
I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
That just leaves the motor to be decided on.
I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
08-11-2010, 08:28 AM
#95
Ah okeys, thanks for the insight 
In general, a highly organised race series needs good clarity about the classes it runs from day 1, and it should not be too many.
Times change and stock, pro stock and modified are long gone imo since brushess came to us all, too many classes.
The BRCA (The UK equivelent of ROAR) abandoned its stock level class a long time ago, the only "replacement" as such was a junior class to help recognise the need for younger people in our hobby to get recognised and to feel like they have achieved something in their hobby.
Unfortnately this wasnt very well supported, which imo is a shame as these young people are the ones we need to keep racing alive and be the future of it.
Is there an issue with sponsored guys winning too much these days?
Does that then make the unsponsored feel like there is no room for them at a big event?
I don't know where the problems are or what needs fixing, maybe it is the economy and the cost of entrance fees that put people off
In general, a highly organised race series needs good clarity about the classes it runs from day 1, and it should not be too many.
Times change and stock, pro stock and modified are long gone imo since brushess came to us all, too many classes.
The BRCA (The UK equivelent of ROAR) abandoned its stock level class a long time ago, the only "replacement" as such was a junior class to help recognise the need for younger people in our hobby to get recognised and to feel like they have achieved something in their hobby.
Unfortnately this wasnt very well supported, which imo is a shame as these young people are the ones we need to keep racing alive and be the future of it.
Is there an issue with sponsored guys winning too much these days?
Does that then make the unsponsored feel like there is no room for them at a big event?
I don't know where the problems are or what needs fixing, maybe it is the economy and the cost of entrance fees that put people off
08-11-2010, 09:33 AM
#96
There was nothing wrong with the 2010 ROAR Nats. One hundred participants is awesome when you consider that at an off-road race most race 2-3 classes (and sometimes 4!) which could translate to 200-300 entries.
Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.
17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.
Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.
17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.
Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
08-11-2010, 10:13 AM
#97
Well said Rick! I agree with you 100%. Labor day and a consistent venue will improve the attendance.
NorCal did a great job holding the Reedy and Nats this year. They deserve to have the 2011 Nats also, if no other GOOD tracks step up.
NorCal did a great job holding the Reedy and Nats this year. They deserve to have the 2011 Nats also, if no other GOOD tracks step up.
There was nothing wrong with the 2010 ROAR Nats. One hundred participants is awesome when you consider that at an off-road race most race 2-3 classes (and sometimes 4!) which could translate to 200-300 entries.
Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.
17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.
Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.
17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.
Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
08-11-2010, 10:46 AM
#99
08-11-2010, 11:14 AM
#100
I'm not sure about the Labor Day part. Travel just gets more expensive on holidays. Early August is just right in my opinion. Otherwise, spot on.
08-11-2010, 11:19 AM
#101
WoW...A lot of mixed emotions and anger...
I know a lot of it has to do with all the classes, sorry but it has become ridiculous, I do not travel like I did in the past but still race locally and the number 1 complaint is ESC and Motors,21.5, 17.5 novice or expert, 13.5 no boost or boost or mod... golly whats next, 
world gt, stock,open 1/12 stock, 10.5 or mod, TC stock, 13.5 mod or Foam and rubber, it's got to the point where people run a class only if they think they can win...
I like what was done at the Nats, simple, mod class and A stock class period, I agree 19 turn caused caos, pro drivers should only run MOD classes, DONE.!!!!
This gives local club races and beginners a chance to do well at stock after all that is the stepping stone to mod, Slow down GOD if you can't handle mod don't run it BUT PLEASE don't slow it down, ITS MOD it's not for BEGINNERS...
Somehow someway rules regarding motors, esc and classes need to be simplified and DONE, just like Europe there is no say it's STOCK and MOD IN TC nothing else, I agree with Shaun tires, if everyone has the same lmit in tires the cost will come down..
entries, God you would swear the economy is boosting the way tracks are charging fees.
MAKE IT ALL SIMPLE AGAIN, DECIDE ON 2 TC CLASSES AND 2 1/12 CLASSES AND BE DONE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know a lot of it has to do with all the classes, sorry but it has become ridiculous, I do not travel like I did in the past but still race locally and the number 1 complaint is ESC and Motors,21.5, 17.5 novice or expert, 13.5 no boost or boost or mod... golly whats next, world gt, stock,open 1/12 stock, 10.5 or mod, TC stock, 13.5 mod or Foam and rubber, it's got to the point where people run a class only if they think they can win...
I like what was done at the Nats, simple, mod class and A stock class period, I agree 19 turn caused caos, pro drivers should only run MOD classes, DONE.!!!!
This gives local club races and beginners a chance to do well at stock after all that is the stepping stone to mod, Slow down GOD if you can't handle mod don't run it BUT PLEASE don't slow it down, ITS MOD it's not for BEGINNERS...
Somehow someway rules regarding motors, esc and classes need to be simplified and DONE, just like Europe there is no say it's STOCK and MOD IN TC nothing else, I agree with Shaun tires, if everyone has the same lmit in tires the cost will come down..
entries, God you would swear the economy is boosting the way tracks are charging fees.
MAKE IT ALL SIMPLE AGAIN, DECIDE ON 2 TC CLASSES AND 2 1/12 CLASSES AND BE DONE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-11-2010, 12:55 PM
#104
I would certainly have no problem with simplifying the class structure and keeping a race at a consistent venue. The consistent venue allows people to budget annually because they have a pretty solid idea after making one trip that the same trip will have the same cost and they can better plan for it. I mean look at the Snowbird Nationals and the (after this year defunct) IIC. By keeping the same place, it not only is a benefit to the host, but to the racers because they arent having to annually re-crunch the numbers to see if they can afford to go to the event or not.
By simplifying the class structure it doesnt make a win seem "hollow". Which is better...finishing top 10 in a class with 30 people or top 10 in a class with 100 people? I like Rick's idea of 17.5 Expert and open mod for touring car. As someone with a Pantoura in my room I have a thing for WGT so Id like to see that at least given a fair chance even at the local level.
I havent renewed my ROAR membership in quite some time but if these things happen I certainly could set aside $30 to make that happen
By simplifying the class structure it doesnt make a win seem "hollow". Which is better...finishing top 10 in a class with 30 people or top 10 in a class with 100 people? I like Rick's idea of 17.5 Expert and open mod for touring car. As someone with a Pantoura in my room I have a thing for WGT so Id like to see that at least given a fair chance even at the local level.
I havent renewed my ROAR membership in quite some time but if these things happen I certainly could set aside $30 to make that happen
08-11-2010, 01:07 PM
#105
I'll say it again, in theory having only 2 classes is a great idea but there is at least one major problem, If a lot of guys are forced to only run one class they just wont show up. Spending up wards of 1-2k for me to attend a race on the west coast is not worth it to me for 30 minutes of track time.
And don't tell me to run 12th scale or wgt. This is my hobby and I will run what I want. I know coming to a race is my choice but if many choose not to come because of this rule and or class structure then attendance will be even lower.
I think the idea of an amateur class now at the nationals is a good idea, Its basically like the stock class of 2006 but not full of 75-100 percent sponsored drivers. Some of you may say that an amateur class should not be at the "Nationals" ok well I would maybe agree with you if these races were selling out but they are not and until they do add as many classes as you can to keep them afloat so it is at least profitable for the Host track.
And don't tell me to run 12th scale or wgt. This is my hobby and I will run what I want. I know coming to a race is my choice but if many choose not to come because of this rule and or class structure then attendance will be even lower.
I think the idea of an amateur class now at the nationals is a good idea, Its basically like the stock class of 2006 but not full of 75-100 percent sponsored drivers. Some of you may say that an amateur class should not be at the "Nationals" ok well I would maybe agree with you if these races were selling out but they are not and until they do add as many classes as you can to keep them afloat so it is at least profitable for the Host track.