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Old 10-31-2012, 01:49 PM   #7906
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
It is important so that at ride height, your pistons sit at the same position in all 4 corners. The piston height has a bit of an effect on how the oil flows through. Having all shocks the same length ensures all 4 shocks are "equal" which should make the car more consistent.

This also allows you to set your shock collars at the same height L/R and can help you identify when your car might have some tweak.
Total shock length will have no affect on the shock collar height.

Yes, it will change piston location. But even without calipers, you wouldn't be out by more than 0.5mm as long as you use the threads as reference. I'd be surprised if 0.5 difference in piston height had a noticeable effect.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:01 PM   #7907
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It does make a difference in collar height because of the position of the threads in relationship to the bottom spring cup. This applies when running a different length shock end at the bottom, since the spring cup does bottom out on the shock end. Personally, I use TC6 ball cups for ball ends and I cut off 2mm off of the front ones to get the spring cup lower and get my ride height low enough. I should have specified this in the previous post.

While it is true that most people won't notice a difference in handling with the piston height, it does not make the procedure correct. You'd be surprised if you actually measure your shocks with calipers, your variance might end up being 1.5mm between the shortest and longest shock.

FWIW, If you want your car to be at its best, measuring your shock lengths is day 1 stuff. It does make a difference.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:18 PM   #7908
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Just to re-enforce what Chritian is saying, Hiro/Hotbodies goes to the extent of making sure the piston is in the same location on all four corners to ensure that the have equal pistion pack. If you look at Andy Moores setup from the worlds thats why they have different shock shaft lengths between the front and rear shocks. Also the more the angle of the shock changes, the more that piston moves up or down and changes the pack. These adjustments where even within .03mm difference, but still adjusted for.

Of course we are talking about drivers that could actually feel those differences and take advantage of those changes.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:23 PM   #7909
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Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
It does make a difference in collar height because of the position of the threads in relationship to the bottom spring cup. This applies when running a different length shock end at the bottom, since the spring cup does bottom out on the shock end. Personally, I use TC6 ball cups for ball ends and I cut off 2mm off of the front ones to get the spring cup lower and get my ride height low enough. I should have specified this in the previous post.
Like you said, the spring cup bottoms out on the shock end. So how could the amount the shock shaft is threaded into the shock end affect your shock collar height?
If you don't believe me, unscrew one of your shock ends by 10 turns and recheck your ride height. You'll see nothing has changed.

I agree if you have different shock ends, that will affect your collar height. But I'm assuming the shock ends are the same.

When I put my car together, I thought it was critical too, and used a caliper on them. But the more I thought about it, the more I realize it's not that important.

I'm really not trying to start an argument. I just think people put too much importance on shock lengths.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:42 PM   #7910
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Again, read my statement about the different ball ends. We agree here.

On the other item, I am not trying to argue either, you are entitled to your opinion and thinking that it does not make a difference. You also have the choice to measure or not measure your shocks- that's up to you. Your skill level may or may not be high enough to tell the difference, however equal shock lengths, at least side-to-side do make your car more consistent. This is a fact.

Whether you achieve this by using calipers or by calculating total threads showing or not is not as important, however the extra step of measuring with calipers does not take but an additional 30 seconds per shock and the result is more consistent. This is why people measure them.

Shock lengths can also be used to adjust for piston position, which is an additional adjustment that allows you to change the behavior of your car when switching directions.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:15 PM   #7911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jha07 View Post
Like you said, the spring cup bottoms out on the shock end. So how could the amount the shock shaft is threaded into the shock end affect your shock collar height?
If you don't believe me, unscrew one of your shock ends by 10 turns and recheck your ride height. You'll see nothing has changed.

I agree if you have different shock ends, that will affect your collar height. But I'm assuming the shock ends are the same.

When I put my car together, I thought it was critical too, and used a caliper on them. But the more I thought about it, the more I realize it's not that important.

I'm really not trying to start an argument. I just think people put too much importance on shock lengths.
Your wrong.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:41 PM   #7912
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WRONG it makes a big difference

At the southern nats we had a hard time gitting the tc6 down to 5.5 mill
With the VTA tires the collars were all the way up and we had to shave
2mm off the shock end and not screw them up all the way leaving about 3thread showing just To get the cars to 5.5 mm in the front before we did this the lowest we could get them was 6.5 to 7 mill
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:49 PM   #7913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Again, read my statement about the different ball ends. We agree here.

On the other item, I am not trying to argue either, you are entitled to your opinion and thinking that it does not make a difference. You also have the choice to measure or not measure your shocks- that's up to you. Your skill level may or may not be high enough to tell the difference, however equal shock lengths, at least side-to-side do make your car more consistent. This is a fact.

Whether you achieve this by using calipers or by calculating total threads showing or not is not as important, however the extra step of measuring with calipers does not take but an additional 30 seconds per shock and the result is more consistent. This is why people measure them.

Shock lengths can also be used to adjust for piston position, which is an additional adjustment that allows you to change the behavior of your car when switching directions.
When you introduce different shock ends, that is a completely different matter, so lets not confuse the two.

As I said before, if you don't believe me, simply try unscrewing one shock end and then check your ride height. Nothing will change. Your car won't be tweaked. This is simple mechanics.

No, it doesn't take very long to use caliper to set your shock ends. In fact, I've be doing that to all my off road cars for sometime. I just don't like to tell new people, that probably don't have calipers, you must get all your shocks the same length because it's extremely critical. Tweak and droop are far more important.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #7914
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What kind of CVA front drive axles are most of you guys using for the front end ?
Everybody just using the standard single joint or are people using aftermarket double joint drive axles ? If so which aftermarket parts are beeing used ?

I read a lot now about cars where people are buying aftermarket double joint front drive axles to reduce shatter under full steering.
Too bad no manufacturer is installing them as standard yet in the high end models like the new Asso TC6.1 worlds kit.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:54 PM   #7915
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Originally Posted by rcpaintinpete View Post
WRONG it makes a big difference

At the southern nats we had a hard time gitting the tc6 down to 5.5 mill
With the VTA tires the collars were all the way up and we had to shave
2mm off the shock end and not screw them up all the way leaving about 3thread showing just To get the cars to 5.5 mm in the front before we did this the lowest we could get them was 6.5 to 7 mill
Exactly, you had to shave off 2mm off the shock end to get the height down. It really doesn't matter if you screwed it in all the way or leave 3 threads showing. The shock end height is what matters because the spring cup rides on it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:55 PM   #7916
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Your wrong.
Sorry, but I am right. And it's "You're" not "Your"
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:30 PM   #7917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussF View Post
Actually its important to make the shocks all the same length. I used calipers to measure mine and make them all the same. I think it was 63mm from top of the cap to bottom of the mount. I could be off the measurement a bit but try your best and make them equal.
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I don't recall the actually measurement. For the rears, I screwed in the shock end all the way, minus 2 threads. For the front I when in all the threads.
Your droop screws will ultimately control how far your suspension goes down. As long as the shocks are long enough that they don't limit travel before the droop screws you'll be ok.
Thanks for the info. I used a caliper and set the shock shaft to 32 mm on all. Guess I'll start there
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:15 PM   #7918
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Well, my build is done. Just need electronics now. Had only a couple hiccups, I'm really impressed. Most of the hiccups were my own stupidity (or following wrong instructions). Nothing that required replacement parts thank goodness. Only kit problems I had were that somehow two screws were missing (thankfully I found suitable replacements) and I learned that the inner camber link ballstuds for the FT do NOT work with the WC vertical ballstud bearing caps. They work in the outermost hole, but any other hole is going to interfere with the bearing carriers, and even in the outermost hole they are a little too long for my taste; I have some AE 3.5mm TiN ballstuds on the way.

Everything is out of the box except:
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RSD 1.5/1/1 Delrin Pistons
RSD Belt Tensioner/Battery Spacer
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:16 AM   #7919
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RSD 1.5/1/1 Delrin Pistons

can anyone help me clarify what are those numbers for shock pistons??i only seen 1,2, and 3 in the kit. also in mike haynes set up, the shock piston he is using was 1,1,1.5 what does it mean? thanks for any help...
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:20 AM   #7920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigelkent09 View Post
RSD 1.5/1/1 Delrin Pistons

can anyone help me clarify what are those numbers for shock pistons??i only seen 1,2, and 3 in the kit. also in mike haynes set up, the shock piston he is using was 1,1,1.5 what does it mean? thanks for any help...
size of the holes in the piston (3 holes; 1 @ 1.5mm, 2 @ 1mm)
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