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Old 07-09-2010, 08:55 AM   #46
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If I remember correctly, Rick said that they plan on including the traditional CVD's as they give more steering.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:06 AM   #47
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Then WHY brings KARTS into this particular discussion? (just a rhetorical question...please don't bother answering, LOL)

BTW, thanks rcko
Karts are an example of extreme chassis flex in motorsport. I think that there is some validity comparing chassis flex from an radio controlled car to a racing kart.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:10 AM   #48
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Karts are an example of extreme chassis flex in motorsport. I think that there is some validity comparing chassis flex from an radio controlled car to a racing kart.
I think that's an extreme comparison ie.- apples vs. oranges. Chassis flex is NOT critically built into the design of our R/C cars. Plus...go-karts does not have suspensions.

Can we move on please? LOL
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:31 PM   #49
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I think that's an extreme comparison ie.- apples vs. oranges. Chassis flex is NOT critically built into the design of our R/C cars. Plus...go-karts does not have suspensions.

Can we move on please? LOL
Sorry JB, but that's totally 100% incorrect. Chassis flex, and variable/adjustable chassis flex is intentionally engineered into the design of most modern TCs to change the car's handling.
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:49 PM   #50
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Sorry JB, but that's totally 100% incorrect. Chassis flex, and variable/adjustable chassis flex is intentionally engineered into the design of most modern TCs to change the car's handling.
x2.

The TC5R comes with the upper deck flex option(orings with washers to allow the chassis to flex).
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:28 PM   #51
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x2.

The TC5R comes with the upper deck flex option(orings with washers to allow the chassis to flex).
Also the T3 has "Multi-Flex", the Mi4 has the "Trans-link" setup, and I could name a few others with adjustable flex characteristics.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:50 PM   #52
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Also the T3 has "Multi-Flex", the Mi4 has the "Trans-link" setup, and I could name a few others with adjustable flex characteristics.
I could be wrong here but I don't think the t3 has "multi -flex", seems to me that was option on the 007 but wasn't carried over to the newer xray t cars.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:54 PM   #53
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I could be wrong here but I don't think the t3 has "multi -flex", seems to me that was option on the 007 but wasn't carried over to the newer xray t cars.
Quote:
• New 1-piece top deck provides new and improved XRAY Multi-Flex™ adjustment possibilities to eliminate chassis flex adjustment; all flex adjustment is performed via the top deck Multi-Flex™ adjustments
Taken from the T3 specs page on Xray's site.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:24 PM   #54
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I could be wrong here but I don't think the t3 has "multi -flex", seems to me that was option on the 007 but wasn't carried over to the newer xray t cars.
Yep.. 08, 09, and t3 were all engineered that way.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:44 PM   #55
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Ya'll need Josh Cyrul to come on here and explain flex....
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:45 PM   #56
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Ya'll need Josh Cyrul to come on here and explain flex....
I definately could use a class in that.

Yes my bad, I had to go and look myself, it's still called multi-flex, I have a brain fart that keeps thinking about the 007 with the lower chassiss plate cutouts.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:03 PM   #57
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All the t2 series cars and the t3 use multiflex, the only versions that don't are the US versions for foam tire carpet.
If I remember right my yokomo over ten years ago had center posts that could be added or taken away along with a spring shock on the top deck to adjust chassis flex.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:01 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Danny-b23 View Post
To be honest I can see both sides of the coin here.

I agree that almost all of the tuning for turn in, rear grip, etc should be done using the suspension only, but the way the car acts when first introduced to steering I would think would be dependant on the torsional strength of the chassis. A flexible chassis making it feel on edge, and a stiffer one making it feel more neutral.

The oil shock can only react as fast as the oil viscosity will let it, so some initial cornering load must be transferred through the upper and lower decks.

Just my view on things.
A proper race car has the stiffest chassis it can get w/o the increased weight becoming a downside. There is also no such thing as too much grip, it's all about harnessing it correctly through the suspension. Shock reaction is a combination of the oil viscosity and the piston dynamics. In simple terms, the oil viscosity will control the piston speed for a given applied force, while the piston profile (# of holes, hole size, rounding, etc.) controls the rate of pressure build-up in the shock. You can use both of these together to tune the rate of weight transfer that suits your driving style. The shock dynamics are also coupled with the roll center and camber gain influences on the build-up of tire grip. A flexible chassis is a band-aid.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:25 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
A proper race car has the stiffest chassis it can get w/o the increased weight becoming a downside. There is also no such thing as too much grip, it's all about harnessing it correctly through the suspension. Shock reaction is a combination of the oil viscosity and the piston dynamics. In simple terms, the oil viscosity will control the piston speed for a given applied force, while the piston profile (# of holes, hole size, rounding, etc.) controls the rate of pressure build-up in the shock. You can use both of these together to tune the rate of weight transfer that suits your driving style. The shock dynamics are also coupled with the roll center and camber gain influences on the build-up of tire grip. A flexible chassis is a band-aid.
A flexible chassis is more than a band-aid in radio controlled car racing. I have never driven a proper race car, but I wouldn't doubt that the entire design of the car is completely different aside from the cars having shocks and springs. The tracks are altogether different, and the body of the race vehicle actually has some affect on the stiffness. It's honestly not a good comparison in my opinion.

Now, I'm not claiming I know how to design the perfect car, RC or otherwise. All I'm saying is that chassis flex were a huge no-no, the radio controlled car manufacturers would be using aluminum lower plates, and super stiff top decks.

We should probably leave this thread for TC6 discussion, PM me if you want to discuss this more.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
A proper race car has the stiffest chassis it can get w/o the increased weight becoming a downside. There is also no such thing as too much grip, it's all about harnessing it correctly through the suspension. Shock reaction is a combination of the oil viscosity and the piston dynamics. In simple terms, the oil viscosity will control the piston speed for a given applied force, while the piston profile (# of holes, hole size, rounding, etc.) controls the rate of pressure build-up in the shock. You can use both of these together to tune the rate of weight transfer that suits your driving style. The shock dynamics are also coupled with the roll center and camber gain influences on the build-up of tire grip. A flexible chassis is a band-aid.


well said i run the tc5f outdoors and have no problem with setup and the car is more accurate and consistent than with a flexy chassis geometry is key to the setup

ps a flexy chassis just masks a bad setup
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