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Old 02-23-2012, 09:36 AM   #5896
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
Hey guys, I was going to try out Rick Hohwart's 11/01/2011 setup:

http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/ca...ub_11-2011.pdf

I ran into a problem where the blades bottom out in the front diff outdrives. I have no idea if this was a problem in my previous setup and I just didn't notice until now, but is there some trick to this particular setup or have I screwed something up? I understand some people are running different universals, is that the difference?

Thanks!
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
The setup says 1mm on the arm mounts in front.... Typically I think that would mean 1mm non-offset, which maybe would cause a problem? Maybe it's supposed to mean 1mm offset since it's a 6.1 setup?

-mike
This setup did not list the mounts as offset which they are. Use the offset mounts or add 2mm shims to the standard mounts to get the correct width.

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Originally Posted by mtaddei View Post
Anybody can help me?????
Nobody uses 2 deg caster. At least I have never heard of it. Is there a reason you must use this?

You can try this but it is not 2 degree caster.

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Originally Posted by ahpeq_ong View Post
any news from Thailand ( TITC ) for AE driver..?
I have only seen a control practice time sheet which showed Juho and Keven somewhere between 10 and 20. There is a TITC 2012 Facebook page with some photos.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:56 AM   #5897
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Straight from the man himself, thank you very much. So just to clarify, that's offset mounts + 1mm shim?

Also:
Should the rear mounts be offset as well?
What caster setting? The box is blank on the sheet.
Approximately how much uptravel would you use? The droop gauge does not take tire size into account.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #5898
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
Nobody uses 2 deg caster. At least I have never heard of it. Is there a reason you must use this?

You can try this but it is not 2 degree caster.



Ciao Rick,

i bought a second hand tc6 and i find the 2 caster fitted on it, as on all set up sheet i always find 4 caster i was curious to see if somebody tried the 2.

In any case before to change the set up of such model i'll give a try to the set up that i find on such model, maybe it works well.

Tnks for yr replay
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #5899
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What's up with the losi #57 pistons?



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Old 02-23-2012, 02:43 PM   #5900
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Nothing. They work great too.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:49 PM   #5901
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Maybe double check that the servo saver is tight-enough?

I've had a bit of what you describe on my initial run with the TC6.1. The first change I made was to add 1mm between the front hinge pin blocks and the bulkheads, at the suggestion of the fast TC6.1 guy in my club. It made the car work a lot more predictably. I think that took care of most of the "the car wants to keep turrrning on exit" issue.

Also, double check your front toe. I think in the past I've found that front toe-in can make the car want to keep turning on exit a bit, but I can't remember if had that going on with my initial run.

Everyone told me the kit setup on the 6.1 was easy to drive, but I thought it was pretty craptastic on carpet. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Changes I've made from kit setup:
- 1mm on front hinge pin blocks - made the car just work smoother
- 5mm droop front and rear, instead of 6 front / 5 rear - made the car more predictable
- 0.5mm on rear/rear blocks - more corner-exit traction, and more stable in a fast transition
- HPI pink / silver springs - car instantly worked better for me, but I don't think it's the right setup, probably has to do with other issues in my setup. Definitely made the car more responsive.
- hole 1 on front camber links - seemed to help me get into the corners better, and make the front end more predictable
- 1mm under front outer camber link - that's what the fast guys are running
- 1mm under outer tie rod - that's what the fast guys are running

The car still isn't working nearly as smooth and consistent as my old car, but my fastest laps are getting there. My main things to try tomorrow night are fresh tires, a front gear diff with 500k, and shocks and springs.


Regarding past experience with twin-point steering... I'm coming from an Mi4LP. When I first got it, I thought the steering was too frantic, and blamed the single-post steering design, having come from a twin-point HPI Pro3. I jumped on the twin point when it came out, and was happier, I thought it was a bit smoother. Something like a year down the road, I threw the stock single-point steering back on, and I think it feels just fine (SkyPilot can say "I told you so" now), maybe even a bit better. The differences are 1) my driving skills progressed so I like a bit more of an aggressive car, and 2) the chassis setup is a lot better than it was back then.

Overall chassis setup / balance are more important than steering geomtry. And more important still are all the little details of how you apply that setup: tire prep, no chassis / spring / swaybar tweak, good weight balance, no binding in the arms/links/drivetrain, accurately set droop, ride height, alignment, smooth shocks, even steering throw, and how you consistently stay on top of how all those little things degrade with each and every run.
And even more important than all that is consistent tire prep and staying on top of what the track surface is doing. If you think the car has the same setup from one run to the next, but it feels like a completely different (worse) car, then chances are you've missed something. I still have a long way to go.

-Mike
Thanks for the detailed response Mike. That is really helpful. I'll try out some of your recommendations on the next practice day. Adding 1mm on front hinge pin blocks sounds interesting as well as using hole 1 on front camber link. I have always been using hole 7 in the front and hole 1 in the back. May be using hole 1 on both will help stabilizing the car.

I have a question about adding 1mm on front hinge pin blocks. Which setting is that affecting exactly? front roll center? toe angle? It'll give a bit of toe out yes. However I don't think that's the point of this set up change. I just want to understand the logic and mechanic of each set up change. it helps me predict how the car should react to it.

Thank you.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #5902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gom View Post
Thanks for the detailed response Mike. That is really helpful. I'll try out some of your recommendations on the next practice day. Adding 1mm on front hinge pin blocks sounds interesting as well as using hole 1 on front camber link. I have always been using hole 7 in the front and hole 1 in the back. May be using hole 1 on both will help stabilizing the car.
I'm on hole 1 in front with 1mm under the outer camber link stud. Because that's what the fast locals use. I'm still at the stock hole 3 in the rear with 2mm under the outer camber link.

Quote:
I have a question about adding 1mm on front hinge pin blocks. Which setting is that affecting exactly? front roll center? toe angle? It'll give a bit of toe out yes. However I don't think that's the point of this set up change. I just want to understand the logic and mechanic of each set up change. it helps me predict how the car should react to it.

Thank you.
So to be clear, I put 1mm under both the forward and backward mounts on the front arms. That will effect track width, shock angle, probably roll center a bit, maybe even ackerman and bump steer for all I know. But the main goal with that change is to widen the front track width. Using 1mm spacers between the wheel and the hex would make a similar change without as many geometry side-effects, and I'm honestly not sure why one approach is preferable than the other. My understanding is that the wider track in front generally takes away some roll, maybe takes away a little grip, stabilizes the car, and makes it harder to flip.

I should start filling out setup sheets to track my changes. But here are some notes from last night's racing:
- I ran the gear diff with 500k traxxas oil all night. It diffed out a lot on corner exit, so I know I was loosing some accelleration there, but it was controllable. I think I had a radio calibration issue that was making it really hard to get on the throttle smoothly that I later sorted out. But overall, the car was much smoother into and through the corners, and was easier to do consistent laps with.
- Started on Spec-R C2.9f/2.5r springs with TRF shocks (with clear silicon o-rings) on AE 35wt oil. That car was decent bit maybe a little nervous. I switched to AE Silver/Green springs on TRF shocks (with 50* tamiya x-rings) with AE 45wt oil, and it was a huge improvement. It really settled the car down, especially in the high-speed transition. I think next time I'll start with 45f/40r, and build the extra set of shocks as 1 pair of 50wt and leave one at 35wt, and experiment with the fluid split.
- I copied another local guy's dynamic brake settings for the Viper ESC. I had it off before. This made it easier to be aggressive on corner entry while still maintaining what little consistency I had . It was kind of weird in a way. I was used to using a lot of brake to slow down a lot to keep from over-shooting, but I found that I could go into the corner a lot faster if I just trusted the dynamic brake. I need more practice with it to get used to it.
- Late in the night, with the car working decently (better than the driver at least) I reduced front up-travel from my initial setting of 3-3.5mm down to 2-2.5mm. This helped the car on corner exit a lot, really reduced the diffing-out problem, and made the car work even better through the high-speed transition.
- In the last qualifier my fast lap was 14.2x with the average looking to be about 14.7ish. Some bad luck with traffic threw me off my pace so I pulled the car to avoid frustration. The only change between then and my B-main was less front droop and fresh tires. I only did 8 laps in the b-main, because I got caught in an accident in front of me in the first corner dropping to 8th / last place, drove 4-5 smooth laps to get back up to third feeling like I had the pace to at least catch 2nd. Then I caught a dot and traction rolled, then started overdriving and making more mistakes, went all trying to stay ahead of the people that I didn't want to have to pass again, and eventually just pulled the car. But... during those 4-5 smooth laps, my fast lap was down to 13.9 and the average was looking like it would shape up to be 3-4 tenths faster.

So a good night from the point of view of getting the car working better, but a bad night in terms of actual racing. :/

-Mike

EDIT: I had mistyped hole 3 in front before, it's actually hole 1. Fixed above.

Last edited by grippgoat; 02-23-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:05 PM   #5903
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Originally Posted by dennisV View Post
Nothing. They work great too.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:42 PM   #5904
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im looking to pu a 6.1 to race this year in a 17.5 blinky class on asphalt. my question is,are people running the 6.1 stock out of the box or changing things like the spool and gear diff.any help would be appreciated.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:33 PM   #5905
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Originally Posted by crash666 View Post
im looking to pu a 6.1 to race this year in a 17.5 blinky class on asphalt. my question is,are people running the 6.1 stock out of the box or changing things like the spool and gear diff.any help would be appreciated.
on asphalt i run gear diff and spool and as far as the spool it's driver preference ive seen guys run gear diff up front on really technical high grip carpet. I never switch any thing in reguards to drivetrain besides oil and gearing .But to each his own
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:37 PM   #5906
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Smile

I was wondering our the majority of touring car drivers mounting their motor fans to pull or push air cause i have mine mounted and just wondering is it better to pull cool air over the motor or pull the heat away from the motor
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:15 PM   #5907
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Originally Posted by mesa80 View Post
I was wondering our the majority of touring car drivers mounting their motor fans to pull or push air cause i have mine mounted and just wondering is it better to pull cool air over the motor or pull the heat away from the motor
When your food is hot do you blow on it or suck air in front of it?

Push air onto.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #5908
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blow on it or suck
PG-13 Banned ...lol
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:44 PM   #5909
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I'm on hole 1 in front with 1mm under the outer camber link stud. Because that's what the fast locals use. I'm still at the stock hole 3 in the rear with 2mm under the outer camber link.



So to be clear, I put 1mm under both the forward and backward mounts on the front arms. That will effect track width, shock angle, probably roll center a bit, maybe even ackerman and bump steer for all I know. But the main goal with that change is to widen the front track width. Using 1mm spacers between the wheel and the hex would make a similar change without as many geometry side-effects, and I'm honestly not sure why one approach is preferable than the other. My understanding is that the wider track in front generally takes away some roll, maybe takes away a little grip, stabilizes the car, and makes it harder to flip.

I should start filling out setup sheets to track my changes. But here are some notes from last night's racing:
- I ran the gear diff with 500k traxxas oil all night. It diffed out a lot on corner exit, so I know I was loosing some accelleration there, but it was controllable. I think I had a radio calibration issue that was making it really hard to get on the throttle smoothly that I later sorted out. But overall, the car was much smoother into and through the corners, and was easier to do consistent laps with.
- Started on Spec-R C2.9f/2.5r springs with TRF shocks (with clear silicon o-rings) on AE 35wt oil. That car was decent bit maybe a little nervous. I switched to AE Silver/Green springs on TRF shocks (with 50* tamiya x-rings) with AE 45wt oil, and it was a huge improvement. It really settled the car down, especially in the high-speed transition. I think next time I'll start with 45f/40r, and build the extra set of shocks as 1 pair of 50wt and leave one at 35wt, and experiment with the fluid split.
- I copied another local guy's dynamic brake settings for the Viper ESC. I had it off before. This made it easier to be aggressive on corner entry while still maintaining what little consistency I had . It was kind of weird in a way. I was used to using a lot of brake to slow down a lot to keep from over-shooting, but I found that I could go into the corner a lot faster if I just trusted the dynamic brake. I need more practice with it to get used to it.
- Late in the night, with the car working decently (better than the driver at least) I reduced front up-travel from my initial setting of 3-3.5mm down to 2-2.5mm. This helped the car on corner exit a lot, really reduced the diffing-out problem, and made the car work even better through the high-speed transition.
- In the last qualifier my fast lap was 14.2x with the average looking to be about 14.7ish. Some bad luck with traffic threw me off my pace so I pulled the car to avoid frustration. The only change between then and my B-main was less front droop and fresh tires. I only did 8 laps in the b-main, because I got caught in an accident in front of me in the first corner dropping to 8th / last place, drove 4-5 smooth laps to get back up to third feeling like I had the pace to at least catch 2nd. Then I caught a dot and traction rolled, then started overdriving and making more mistakes, went all trying to stay ahead of the people that I didn't want to have to pass again, and eventually just pulled the car. But... during those 4-5 smooth laps, my fast lap was down to 13.9 and the average was looking like it would shape up to be 3-4 tenths faster.

So a good night from the point of view of getting the car working better, but a bad night in terms of actual racing. :/

-Mike

EDIT: I had mistyped hole 3 in front before, it's actually hole 1. Fixed above.
Thanks again Mike. that clears up some questions in my head. initially i thought you meant adding 1mm shim in the front fwd mount only. it makes more sense now after you explained it again that the shimming to both fwd and rwd mounts is to add front wheel base hence reduces roll a bit. i think i'll try that next time.

A weird thing i found though is that in some of Keven Hebert's most recent setup, he had 0.5mm more shimming in the front fwd mount than front rwd mount. That's similar to what i thought you suggested (which was my misunderstanding). now it really makes me wonder why he did that.

Regarding front camber link hole 1 or hole 7. it seems that most people found hole 1 better ever since the tc6.1 came out. i am not sure if that's because tc6.1 geometry is different from tc6. or drivers just found hole 1 to be faster overall. I always thought tc6.1 and tc6 geometry is exactly the same. but now I am confused. Can some one verify this?
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:49 PM   #5910
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Default #31360 6.1 steering blocks

I have been trying to get some 6.1 steering blocks, #31360, but no one has stock. Any word as to the ETA?

Thanks.
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