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Old 07-08-2010, 01:51 PM   #31
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Yes....FORGET chassis flex as the major factor. Work on the suspension the way its supposed to be used, and you can make the car fast from track to track/surface to surface.

I don't believe the hype......I don't want a wet noodle & I don't want a brick. Give me something in the middle, and I'll use the suspension in its entirety to get the car where it needs to be.

Just my $.02
To be honest I can see both sides of the coin here.

I agree that almost all of the tuning for turn in, rear grip, etc should be done using the suspension only, but the way the car acts when first introduced to steering I would think would be dependant on the torsional strength of the chassis. A flexible chassis making it feel on edge, and a stiffer one making it feel more neutral.

The oil shock can only react as fast as the oil viscosity will let it, so some initial cornering load must be transferred through the upper and lower decks.

Just my view on things.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:05 PM   #32
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I still have sets of Sorex and RP tires from 4+ years ago that clearly outperform their newer counterparts. The newer compounds feel inconsistent, and do not seem to handle heat as well as the previous compounds did.

With that said, a little chassis flex isnt a bad thing as it will help negate tire inconsistency and make the car feel smooth and easy to drive. I just want a car thats tunable, durable, and a 'Jack of all Surfaces'. Ill wheel the rest...
The old tires were better. One of the chemicals used in the tires was banned, so everything has changed....
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:13 PM   #33
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coming from our day to day use of full sized cars, this would seem to make the most sense.. but practical results on the race track with a TC, says otherwise.
I completely understand the logic Brandon....but those are just words. I wanna SEE heat to heat laptime differences. I was never able to prove it to myself on the track; and I've played the 'chassis flex game'. I would rather fine tune my suspension components. But to each his own.

The main issue I see with these flexible chassis and top decks is side to side/ fore and aft flex characteristics. The repetitious movement the carbon fiber layers have in either direction weakens (splinters) the layers over time, rendering the advantage useless and introducing inconsistencies that the naked eye can't see.
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Last edited by JayBee; 07-08-2010 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:42 PM   #34
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I completely understand the logic Brandon....but those are just words. I wanna SEE heat to heat laptime differences. I was never able to prove it to myself on the track; and I've played the 'chassis flex game'. I would rather fine tune my suspension components. But to each his own.

The main issue I see with these flexible chassis and top decks is side to side/ fore and aft flex characteristics. The repetitious movement the carbon fiber layers have in either direction weakens (splinters) the layers over time, rendering the advantage useless and introducing inconsistencies that the naked eye can't see.
Oh im with ya on all that.... I fine tune my suspension as much as anybody else I know at the track, but at the same time, I run a very loose chassis that flexes quite a bit to try and maximise traction on our low traction asphault layout. In other words, the flex I have is kind of a fixed setting I use,.. its the base. I tune everything else I have on the car to get the desired affect... and my car seems to drive extremelly well.

It would be pretty difficult to get an actual laptime comparrison between a car with lots of flex, and one with none. It would require the same electronics, same basic car, same driver, same tires, and driven on the same track at roughly the same time.

I first started learning about this stuff back in 2003 ish, when I used to race at SoCal raceway down near Los Angeles. It was an indoor, cool and smooth asphault surface, with very very little traction. You could tune the tail off your car down there, but regardless of what other changes you made, the stiffer you made the car, the less natural grip you had through the track. Losen the car up, and natural grip would come right back.

so.. who knows! Maybe it isn't as important with today's modern TCs.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:54 PM   #35
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The old tires were better. One of the chemicals used in the tires was banned, so everything has changed....
so true, and so few know or realize this
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:55 PM   #36
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I run strictly foams so the first thing I would have to do after buying the kit is to purchase a complete front diff and then start to look at how I could stiffen the chassis. I believe a great rubber car does not make a great foam car. This is why in the past there is a rubber and foam version. However I know foam is dead so I can understand the logic in just one car. I believe Xray may be the last company that will make a new foam car in the future as Associated, T.O.P, and others are now releasing only rubber cars.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:19 PM   #37
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The old tires were better. One of the chemicals used in the tires was banned, so everything has changed....
Yeah i heard about that, but didnt know the details to know if that would be a major player in the difference. All i know is i can tell a handling and longevity difference with the newer rubber of the same brands.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1:1 cars have flex too. Its a major element that helps a car handle as well as it can. Heck, you can install a roll cage and ruin a cars performance, if it wasnt meant to work with the chassis design. A lot factors into chassis/suspension design... IMO its even more important on the smaller scales, because there is less room for error.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:22 PM   #38
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Go Karts are a good example of chassis flex, but then, no suspension.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:04 PM   #39
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I run strictly foams so the first thing I would have to do after buying the kit is to purchase a complete front diff and then start to look at how I could stiffen the chassis. I believe a great rubber car does not make a great foam car. This is why in the past there is a rubber and foam version. However I know foam is dead so I can understand the logic in just one car. I believe Xray may be the last company that will make a new foam car in the future as Associated, T.O.P, and others are now releasing only rubber cars.
The TC5r comes with enough parts to build a front diff or slipper spool. The TC6 will probably do the same. It's not that expensive to throw in some extra diff balls and diff rings.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:55 PM   #40
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karts... these do not have a differential. chassis flex is critically built into its design to allow the inside rear tire to "lift" and get the kart to turn in / rotate. different reason to TC chassis flex. TC flex is to gain "mechanical" grip. thats why foam on carpet we run stiff stuff... we dont need the extra grip.
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:05 PM   #41
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Curious ... why is the release date October? Isnt AE going to miss out on the outdoor/asphalt season here in the US?
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:45 PM   #42
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I'm hoping for a pre-IIC release...hint hint!
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:17 AM   #43
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karts... these do not have a differential. chassis flex is critically built into its design to allow the inside rear tire to "lift" and get the kart to turn in / rotate. different reason to TC chassis flex. TC flex is to gain "mechanical" grip. thats why foam on carpet we run stiff stuff... we dont need the extra grip.
Yes, but we do something similar with stiffening one end of the rc car to get the back end to rotate. Similar but not the same. I honestly don't know much about go karts, the the ramblings years and years and years ago from my old man back when he had the money for my older brother to race karts.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:30 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
Go Karts are a good example of chassis flex, but then, no suspension.
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karts... these do not have a differential. chassis flex is critically built into its design to allow the inside rear tire to "lift" and get the kart to turn in / rotate. different reason to TC chassis flex. TC flex is to gain "mechanical" grip. thats why foam on carpet we run stiff stuff... we dont need the extra grip.
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Yes, but we do something similar with stiffening one end of the rc car to get the back end to rotate. Similar but not the same. I honestly don't know much about go karts, the the ramblings years and years and years ago from my old man back when he had the money for my older brother to race karts.
Then WHY brings KARTS into this particular discussion? (just a rhetorical question...please don't bother answering, LOL)

BTW, thanks rcko
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:53 AM   #45
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Maybe I overlooked but was there an answer on what type of CVDs, ESC, etc are going to be produced for the car?
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