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Old 06-27-2011, 07:14 PM   #3046
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Just another perspective on this arm mount discussion...

When I am at the track I spend time looking over my car before each run to ensure the entire car is ready for racing. I think checking the arm holders is just part of the process, and something I do before every run.

I see a lot of effort around trying to ensure that the arm holders do not move, but really what is the impact during a race? If the arm holder rotates .15-.25 mm due to a large impact do you think you can actually feel it? I guess what I am saying is that I am just not sure all of this effort is really worth it. The arm mounts have been used on touring cars for a long time and they have proven to hold up over time. The other options have issues as well during large impacts, and I would rather have to readjust a plastic block then having to replace a $15-20 aluminum block. There are always pros and cons to each design...I happen to really like the flexibility that comes with these arm mounts and willing to accept the maintenance that might be associated with them.

During a very big impact something has to give or you just end up with a bunch of bent metal or torn carbon fiber plates, I personally think that breaking a 10 cent plastic arm mount is a good compromise.

I understand that people want to trust the arm mounts and never have to adjust them, but to be honest I think it creates good habits on checking and maintaining your car.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:27 PM   #3047
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+1

Even on suspension block cars like Tamiya they still move somewhat, its just one part of checking your car between runs.
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:38 PM   #3048
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I really havent had any trouble with the arm mounts after about a year of running the car. I've only replaced one caster block the whole time.

Mike
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:34 PM   #3049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
If the arm holder rotates .15-.25 mm due to a large impact do you think you can actually feel it?
My experiance is more like up to 1mm after a days running, others reporting falling completely off, and if your running 2 classes, and being forced to adjust every run is excessive time lost that could be used for something more valuable. It can also contribute to something else being overlooked. As to what does it hurt?? As the arm rotates you are actually causing arm angles as they pivot. Without knowing it you are adding anti or pro dive as they pivot because usually only 1 side turns. This also causes droop and ride height to change. As far as replacing a "$15.00" block (they cost $3.50 ea), ...if you are referring to the PPD blocks they are guaranteed not to break, bend or strip....if they do you'll get a free replacement.

Thanks for the great support Art....how bout giving those free blocks I sent you to Reedy to someone that will use and appreciate the work put into them and what they really do save.
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Last edited by Verndog; 06-27-2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:29 PM   #3050
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Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
My experiance is more like up to 1mm after a days running, others reporting falling completely off, and if your running 2 classes, and being forced to adjust every run is excessive time lost that could be used for something more valuable. It can also contribute to something else being overlooked. As to what does it hurt?? As the arm rotates you are actually causing arm angles as they pivot. Without knowing it you are adding anti or pro dive as they pivot because usually only 1 side turns. This also causes droop and ride height to change. As far as replacing a "$15.00" block (they cost $3.50 ea), ...if you are referring to the PPD blocks they are guaranteed not to break, bend or strip....if they do you'll get a free replacement.

Thanks for the great support Art....how bout giving those free blocks I sent you to Reedy to someone that will use and appreciate the work put into them and what they really do save.
hey verndog

i have order a full set from a shop here in Aust looking forward to running them as i only had one race meet with the tc6 and did find them moving every now and agin not a big thing tho car still handling well but would be nice to know that they will stay put with the dial a grips.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:56 PM   #3051
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Originally Posted by goin2drt View Post
When is the rumored AE gear diff coming out? I would really like to try one but I am just not wanting to modify my car to get a Yok or Spec-R to fit.
I talked to Sean C. Friday and its scheduled for early September. So figure it might be available for IIC if there aren't too many set backs.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:58 PM   #3052
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Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
My experiance is more like up to 1mm after a days running, others reporting falling completely off, and if your running 2 classes, and being forced to adjust every run is excessive time lost that could be used for something more valuable. It can also contribute to something else being overlooked. As to what does it hurt?? As the arm rotates you are actually causing arm angles as they pivot. Without knowing it you are adding anti or pro dive as they pivot because usually only 1 side turns. This also causes droop and ride height to change. As far as replacing a "$15.00" block (they cost $3.50 ea), ...if you are referring to the PPD blocks they are guaranteed not to break, bend or strip....if they do you'll get a free replacement.

Thanks for the great support Art....how bout giving those free blocks I sent you to Reedy to someone that will use and appreciate the work put into them and what they really do save.
Vern-

I was not actually talking about the Dial-a-grip blocks that you created, but was more talking about twisting the aluminum toe blocks from cars like the Tamiya and Hotbodies.

I think it is great that you created a product that is meeting the needs of many racers out there and have noticed that your design is getting a lot of support around the world.

I was not even close to criticizing the work you have done, and would gladly send back the blocks if you PM me your address, as I stated previously in PM.
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:22 AM   #3053
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
During a very big impact something has to give or you just end up with a bunch of bent metal or torn carbon fiber plates, I personally think that breaking a 10 cent plastic arm mount is a good compromise.

I understand that people want to trust the arm mounts and never have to adjust them, but to be honest I think it creates good habits on checking and maintaining your car.
Have ever broke one armmount?
It happened to me. It was a fast impact into a spectator bench after my car was hit from behind. The front left arm of the front axle broke. The suspension arm then turned backwards with the rest of the suspension and damper because the rear left arm was still holding everything. The shock became a lever and broke my shock tower... C-hub and everything else was OK. I would have been happier if the c-hub or suspension arm would have been destroyed because these parts do I always carry. But the shocktower?! These things never break, only when the armmount breaks
So I am happy with the dial-a-grip. It is 10 grams more weight, but saves a lot of time not having to recheck and retighten after every race.
Just my two cents...
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:45 AM   #3054
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Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
Have ever broke one armmount?
It happened to me. It was a fast impact into a spectator bench after my car was hit from behind. The front left arm of the front axle broke. The suspension arm then turned backwards with the rest of the suspension and damper because the rear left arm was still holding everything. The shock became a lever and broke my shock tower... C-hub and everything else was OK. I would have been happier if the c-hub or suspension arm would have been destroyed because these parts do I always carry. But the shocktower?! These things never break, only when the armmount breaks
So I am happy with the dial-a-grip. It is 10 grams more weight, but saves a lot of time not having to recheck and retighten after every race.
Just my two cents...
Sounds like a really bad crash that wound have broken any car.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:29 AM   #3055
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Hey what is the blue looking liner around your chassis edge???????
Hm.
Parma fasblue paint with ca

Regards!
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:34 AM   #3056
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About a-arms mounts.

They suck because sucks

In tc5 screw come from another side.

if want have it right, just redril holes, put tc5 blue tubes and DONE!

Anyway, they need only two stoppers, at front and rear end of car.
In RWD rotates when done bad by builder ;-)

Anyway, too much allu in suspension gives breaking parts that they never break when use plastics.

I will stay with plastics, only a-arm mounts break when REALLY HARD hit something in modified

Now I will do chassis for Saturday race, and then few days latter I will do ETS finals


Btw, small tip for shocks, just add 2mm spacer on shaft, it moves spring retainer up so it doesn't touch a-arm.

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Old 06-28-2011, 08:39 AM   #3057
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Vern-
I was not even close to criticizing the work you have done, and would gladly send back the blocks if you PM me your address, as I stated previously in PM.
My apologies if I misunderstood your post Art. No, I don't need them back, just give to someone that wants to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
Have ever broke one armmount?
It happened to me. It was a fast impact into a spectator bench after my car was hit from behind. The front left arm of the front axle broke. The suspension arm then turned backwards with the rest of the suspension and damper because the rear left arm was still holding everything. The shock became a lever and broke my shock tower... C-hub and everything else was OK. I would have been happier if the c-hub or suspension arm would have been destroyed because these parts do I always carry. But the shocktower?! These things never break, only when the armmount breaks
So I am happy with the dial-a-grip. It is 10 grams more weight, but saves a lot of time not having to recheck and retighten after every race.
Just my two cents...
Good point and lesson learned....the hard way. The PPD blocks should be only + 5 grams if you weight against the 0 blocks with bushings in and the 1mm shim that is no longer needed.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:56 AM   #3058
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Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
Have ever broke one armmount?
It happened to me. It was a fast impact into a spectator bench after my car was hit from behind. The front left arm of the front axle broke. The suspension arm then turned backwards with the rest of the suspension and damper because the rear left arm was still holding everything. The shock became a lever and broke my shock tower... C-hub and everything else was OK. I would have been happier if the c-hub or suspension arm would have been destroyed because these parts do I always carry. But the shocktower?! These things never break, only when the armmount breaks
So I am happy with the dial-a-grip. It is 10 grams more weight, but saves a lot of time not having to recheck and retighten after every race.
Just my two cents...
Yes, I actually have broke one...and I am glad it was made of plastic or there would have been much worse damage to the car. Big impacts are going to break stuff there is no doubt, but the point I was making earlier was that I would rather the broken piece be a small piece of plastic rather then a bent bulked or delaminated chassis. In every design there are parts that are designed to break under certain impacts and when you replace the pieces designed to give a little you are putting that energy into somewhere else in the car, and that can have catastrophic results. Like I said previously I am glad people have options.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #3059
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Yes, I actually have broke one...and I am glad it was made of plastic or there would have been much worse damage to the car.
The age old debate..."don't make it to strong or something else will break" is a never ending argument with no winners. But in all fairness each part in question needs to be analyzed with its own parameters separately from other parts when considering this argument. What I can tell you is with over 70 sets now out, we've heard or seen no reported increase in parts breakage, and when you really look at the impact chain I personally don't think we ever will. Impact chain in collision>>> First is rubber tire mounted to plastic wheel , connected to plastic steering knuckle, connected to plastic C hub connected to plastic arm, connected to hardened steel hinge pin, connected to plastic vs aluminum mount, connected to aluminum bulkhead. That makes 5 plastic or rubber parts to flex or absorb impact before hitting the new aluminum part...sounds like plenty to me. So if the mount doesn't break then what does? Prob. the C hub or arm...and in 1+ months we have zero broken here with major crash testing included.....and...time for a hot dog at break.
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:13 PM   #3060
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I don't get why Spec-R would make gear diffs for the SCHUMACHER, but not the TC6. Even the TA05 and FF03 got some love.
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