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-   -   USGT (http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/411122-usgt.html)

robk 06-24-2010 06:17 PM

USGT
 
Kevin K and myself have been talking over some ideas about "GT" style racing and maybe some ways to have a unique racing experience while still keeping the cars reasonable. This is going to be under the USVTA banner, and we would like to implement this for Sept.1, officially. There may still be some tweaks here, but it's 95% there.


Quote:

USGT

Any 1/10 4wd or Fwd sedan with 4 wheel independent suspension.
4wd 1450g weight Fwd 1400g weight
Any 190mm or 200mm body….body can be any body that’s not on the ROAR T2 body list.
Any molded wings can be used. Lexan wings 10mm maximum height / side dam height
Tires-Any treaded (non–slick) rubber tire available 24 or 26mm, maximum non-sale street price of $12/pair at a USA retailer. Must used a non-molded (ex. open cell foam) insert.
Wheels- Any 24 or 26mm spoke (non-dish) type wheel
Motors- 21.5
Open ESC
6 minute qualifiers
8 minute mains
ROAR approved hard case batteries
Scale type race liveries encouraged
Driver figures NOT required :D

We looked at a bunch of retailers, and realized you can get tires from HPI, Tamiya, Associated, Integy, etc. etc. for under $12. This doesn't lock everybody in to one tire, and if you can find something cheaper that goes faster, more power to you. Run 26mm vta tires all the way around, have fun:D

The other thing was keeping away from what is right now the most successful class, 17.5 sedan. Open speedo 21.5 cars will be plenty fast, but still be a reasonable speed. We're not locking anyone into a single ESC, or motor for that matter right now. This is meant to be something between VTA and sedan, but not the same as either one.

Edit: BTW the FWD thing is getting a lot of buzz, so we wanted a place for that too.

IL_AudiRacer 06-24-2010 06:52 PM

I like It ! Long Live GT racing

alphaqgti 06-24-2010 06:53 PM

Sounds like fun! Good place to put that soon to be unusable 21.5T motor.

mikel33 06-24-2010 07:03 PM

hmmmmmm.

UltegraSTI 06-24-2010 07:13 PM

how long til MEOW runs this good idea over. wait and see. best of luck, keep fightin the good fight.

R

Damnit Man 06-24-2010 07:22 PM

I think I like this idea better than some others I have heard for GT classes. I like how it leaves tires, batteries, and ESC's open to more brands. It also adds FWD which I think would be fun to try out.

Kregger 06-24-2010 07:41 PM

After all the time you spent butting heads with people about diluting VTA and keeping the class together, why are you taking the risk of diluting RCGT and causing a rift.

mikel33 06-24-2010 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kregger (Post 7587259)
After all the time you spent butting heads with people about diluting VTA and keeping the class together, why are you taking the risk of diluting RCGT and causing a rift.

..

I run with Rob a lot. In our area RCGT is all but dead. We have had a fair number of conversations about how to make the class different enough to make it attractive as a 2nd class rather than in competition with TC. If RCGT is strong in your area, then this might not be for you. In our area its an attempt to save the idea of the class without clashing with TC and ruining both classes. At least, that is my perception. Rob or Kevin would have to confirm that.

home13oy75 06-25-2010 12:59 AM

I think it's a great idea.

abailey21 06-25-2010 05:57 AM

Your shooting yourself in the foot with an open ESC rule, the fact i'll need a thousand dollars worth of ESC's, a laptop, and all the PC hookups for the ESC's just to be competitive in a "21.5 spec" class would turn me, and new comers away in a heartbeat

HarryN 06-25-2010 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey21 (Post 7588764)
Your shooting yourself in the foot with an open ESC rule, the fact i'll need a thousand dollars worth of ESC's, a laptop, and all the PC hookups for the ESC's just to be competitive in a "21.5 spec" class would turn me, and new comers away in a heartbeat

Well the idea will work just fine and it will bring in the more experienced crowd versus new people. Reason being is that the experienced folk have more of the high dollar stuff to remain competitive, no matter what motor they are running. Plus not having to learn or deal with non-adjustable ESCs and Motors is another plus for them, since they don't have to worry about others being on a same playing field as them.

As far as bringing new people in, USGT will definitely not allow that to happen. New people may come in, but promptly leave until they learn how much they have to spend and whose leg they have to hump in order to get advice on how to be fast like the fastest guys on the track.

Kevin K 06-25-2010 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kregger (Post 7587259)
After all the time you spent butting heads with people about diluting VTA and keeping the class together, why are you taking the risk of diluting RCGT and causing a rift.

We dont think this class will dilute Trans AM. People that like Trans AM will still race it. All this class is doing is allowing a set of rules to be run along with VTA and the next step up. This would also work for all the guys that want to make VTA faster....here you go here is USGT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikel33 (Post 7587397)
..

I run with Rob a lot. In our area RCGT is all but dead. We have had a fair number of conversations about how to make the class different enough to make it attractive as a 2nd class rather than in competition with TC. If RCGT is strong in your area, then this might not be for you. In our area its an attempt to save the idea of the class without clashing with TC and ruining both classes. At least, that is my perception. Rob or Kevin would have to confirm that.

You are correct Mike....the whole intention of this class is to offer a second class thats not 17.5 rubber tire. ROAR changed everything with its new rules....13.5 is dead. Now its 17.5 and sportsman....as really no-one runs mod....so there is a place for this class for people to have fun with and enjoy a second class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey21 (Post 7588764)
Your shooting yourself in the foot with an open ESC rule, the fact i'll need a thousand dollars worth of ESC's, a laptop, and all the PC hookups for the ESC's just to be competitive in a "21.5 spec" class would turn me, and new comers away in a heartbeat

Thousand dollars...really. ESC...150.00 or less....Lap top...300 or less...pc interface 40 or less....Math wasnt my strong subject in school but I dont see 1000 dollars there. Plus not every ESC needs a Laptop to setup. This open ESC rule allows you to move up or down a class with no further expense now or down the road. If you make this class limited to say the Citrix ESC or system....and that person wants to move up a class they are now stuck with an 80 dollar paper weight. Where if they would have just have purchased an open ESC they would be set and ready to race just about any class.

abailey21 06-25-2010 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin K (Post 7588849)
Thousand dollars...really. ESC...150.00 or less....Lap top...300 or less...pc interface 40 or less....Math wasnt my strong subject in school but I dont see 1000 dollars there. Plus not every ESC needs a Laptop to setup. This open ESC rule allows you to move up or down a class with no further expense now or down the road. If you make this class limited to say the Citrix ESC or system....and that person wants to move up a class they are now stuck with an 80 dollar paper weight. Where if they would have just have purchased an open ESC they would be set and ready to race just about any class.

Tekin RS Pro - 210.00 https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...s&pn=TEKTT1153

Hotwire - 40.00 https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...s&pn=TEKTT1450

LRP SXX Stock Spec - https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...ns&pn=LRP80910

Speed Passion GT - 200.00 https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...=SPR98802PROCS

Speed Passion LCD box, 30.00

Total without computer, $480.00 and it's not like you wont need ALL of this, every week one of these is faster than the next so you'll need to change.

now computers, yeah you can get one for 300, but were RC Car guys, if you have a 300 netbook your buddies will tell you your a girl, you need at least the 500 dollar one, or your not a man that runs on road. so now your at $980.00 so there's your thousand dollars.

not to mention:
21.5 motors from every company, to make sure you have the fastest of course, so at 90.00 a pop you'll need an LRP, Novak, Tekin, Speed Passion, so for lack of rounding, we'll just 400.00, now your almost at 1400.00


and if you have open ESC, not one person will ever look at something like the Cirtix because there's no competing with the big boy lets go 70MPH in a 21.5 car ESC like the Tekin or LRP.

Kevin K 06-25-2010 06:53 AM

Adam have you driven a 21.5 open ESC car yet? Its not 70mph...to get a 17.5 car up to 70mph how long would your track have to be to reach that speed? 200ft long? Its about 1 second a lap slower then 17.5 open ESC....which is just about the right amount it should be back. Plus its much easier to drive and handle.

As far as the prices of the ESC's there are some cheaper then the ones you listed that will work in this class too.

If someone is telling you your netbook is weak then thats probably the same tool box that was sleeping outside the Apple store to get the new Ipad or what ever.

Motors....I dont see people doing that in 17.5 now where they have to have all the motors to race. Most people that I race with have 1 or 2 motors. If someone wants to buy all the motors then fine thats what they can do but is it needed to race this class? Nope.

drsfly 06-25-2010 09:03 AM

common sense!
 
Sanity is rarely rewarded!

I am however glad to see some. Here are some opinions of mine which in no way reflect Kevin & Rob's thought process.

GT is not meant to be the entry level class. VTA provides that portal.
It is however not going to be so fast with the open speedo 21.5 that it will be prohibitively fast if someone with a little experience wants to jump in.

It is and should be a sizeable speed increase over VTA. It is and should be a step up that gives these drivers a new challenge both with set up and with driving skills required.

It should be a bridge toward TC. I think it is painfully obvious that the open speedo now makes it impossible for a beginner to step straight into open 17.5
and last more than a few weeks. We all pontificate on how to garner a portion of the new hobbyists looking at RC racing and how to keep those already involved. This is a step toward both.

There will be those that do not want to invest further in the hobby and for them VTA is satisfying. There are those who look for a different challenge and this can provide for that need.
If they do not already have an open class speedo(because you know a lot of us already do) that investment will be for this class and for the next step which is a move into TC.

Now, will there be a need to have a slower or somewhat spec version of TC, I do not know. That may not be necessary as open 21.5 is close enough to open 17.5 that it should be manageable for those looking to make that step.

This separation of classes also makes a reasonable second class for the VTA guys to test the water as well as a second class for the TC guys that want a
little less pressure.

By the way I also know the Rs version is readily available for $160. No need for a pro version in this class --- or TC other than Mod.:smile:

I still hate the tires and think it should be TC tire but as long as someone is not trying to claim intellectual property for the initials RC (generic term for all products related) and GT from a series predating any RC version, I will acquiesce.

I intended to stay out of this as I will probably run 12th this season anyway but as that comic Ron White said"I lacked the ability" to keep my mouth(fingers) shut.

Looks good for club and series level racing.

Later,
Darrald


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