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USIC USGT 2016 Motor and Chassis list

TQ A.F. TSR A800
2nd D.J. TeamPowers A800
3rd B.S. TSR A800
4th M.L. TSR A800
5th M.F TeamPowers A800
6th D.J TSR Destiny
7th J.W. Trinity Monster '17 Xray
8th C.V TSR Destiny
9 A.C. TSR A700
10 B.K. R1 v15 A700
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13 J.L. TSR A800
14 M.L. TSR Destiny
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18 R.C. TSR T4
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20 S.J. TSR Destiny
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22 E.S. motiv T4
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26 P.D. TSR Destiny
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30 V.P. Reedy M3 serpent 3.0
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35 Y.B. Fantom A800
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38 R.C. TSR A800
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40 W.S. Reedy
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43 Motiv xray
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46 Motiv Xray
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:32 PM   #3226
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.crispy: sounds like a specific listing of approved bodies would take care of your concerns?
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:58 PM   #3227
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There will be a list of DISapproved bodies.
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Old 10-29-2014, 09:14 PM   #3228
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Originally Posted by .crispy View Post
You have it backwards. Perhaps you didn't see this as I added it later.

"And please don't mistake my position. I am in the camp that purpose built racing cars should be excluded and the rules should tightened up and made black and white. I predicted more issues like this. My main reason being what if something just like the Riley prototype comes out, (it's legal, the precedent is set) and it is actually much, much, much better than everything else. USGT will become a one body class like WGT.

I believe your original intention is sound. GT cars. Just make the rule tighter."


It's called being a Devil's advocate. I'm not the only one that feels this way. I'm just more vocal.

For example, adding a no open cockpit rule works until someone wants to run this:

First we could clean up the wording in the rules but it doesnt appear to be much of an issue unless you go out of your way to make it an issue.

Second the Riley does not hold any advantage if it did then it would be on EVERYONES car that races USGT but alas it does not even appear in most A-mains at larger events. If at your local track someone put one on their car and it got better maybe the body that they had on before wasnt so good or their setup works better with that body. We have seen this body and tested this body it doesnt come with any magic pixie dust that makes it a world beater.

LMP bodies that are designed for pan cars are not allowed as there is really only 1 car on the market that can even try to make use of them. We will clear this up in the rules too but it really should not need to be said as that Speedpassion body you posted will not fit ANY sedan we looked into this as well. The only way it will fit is if you make cuts in the body for the suspension, shock towers or blukheads....we will clear this up in the rules too you are not allowed to cut the body in anyway to allow the body to sit lower over the shock towers etc. Also this SP body is about 2/3's the weight of any other body out there and that is something that would not help you in anyway.
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Old 10-30-2014, 04:12 AM   #3229
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I wrote this a few weeks ago in response to the pictures losted of real gt cars. Some of them portotypes an non production cars. And was told this is the way to approach the body question.

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Well at least 3 if not more of those cars are not any type of production car. And is the Honda HSV 010 a production car? Its def not here in the states. So if this pictoral is to represent the type of cars that should "realisticaly" be in the class, then almost any prototype car thats not an ALMS/LMP/wedge (1/12) style body should be accetable. Am I correct?

But I guess there are purist out there that want only production cars. That still leaves the McLaren, the Zonda, Corvette, and other bodies with that kind of shape.

My guess is most of the guys winning races could win with any body. They just happen to be good enough to take advantage of the bodies with a little better areo. My other guess is, the guys that keep asking what the fastest bodies are, are the ones that aren't winning races and arenlooking for exuses as to why.
.

Making a list of approved bodies is impratical because there are so many out there that fit within the guidlines that come from smaller companies. There are also s ton of discontinued bodies like the Saleen and Ford GT that fit. Problem with makingnadissaproavedlist is the same thing, and if its not on a dissaproaved list, then no matter what it is, its automatically approved, so you guys better do your homework. I know this has got to suck for the rule makers and I really wish people would just stop trying to run crazy bodies. Basically if you have to ask, its 95% going to be a no. And please re-read the third paraghraph of my quoted ststement.

Thank you, good day
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:29 AM   #3230
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I do believe that creating a list of bodies, approved or disapproved, will cause Rob to be chasing his tail. I don't expect that.

I do believe it is possible to better define what type of body is permitted with very little work. One sentence would do it. And it would eliminate 99.9% of the questions. Of course my version of that sentence would eliminate racing cars, exotics & concept cars. Your mileage may vary.

I strongly believe that all "weasel words" like "discouraged" should be removed from a rule book. I downloaded the IndyCar rule book from the web. 261 pages and not one instance of "discouraged" in it. Also, I'll point out that they use "shall not" instead of "should not" because it eliminates ambiguity too.

Basically I just think some of us just want better definition and consistency. I don't understand why a DP looking body is legal, but a LMP looking body is illegal? Don't forget, the biggest advantage of tighter rules is you don't have to constantly modify them. They'll still work in the future when new bodies come out.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:15 AM   #3231
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Originally Posted by .crispy View Post
I do believe that creating a list of bodies, approved or disapproved, will cause Rob to be chasing his tail. I don't expect that.
Honestly, I agree the "effort" to make an approved list will be more involved.

But the effort you invest in the front end pays off in the back end as if its not on the list, guess what, not approved. You also save on the questions of "is this legal, is it not", etc. Not on the list, not approved.

And its not like people can't send message saying "Can you confirm these bodies would be abel to be legal and used"?

Assuming the legality of the body is based on looks that the class targets and dimensions if my understanding is correct, you get a list of 20 or so, look at the pics, does it fit the description of what the class should allow,yes? Okay your added to the list.

Will you have a lot of bodies listed, sure? Every single possible one? no.

Will it be easier to refer people to the list to see what is legal to use, YES!

Talking with guys wanting to do USGT that is usually the first question, what bodies are legal, where can I get a list of bodies that are legal?

It would be nice if like USVTA just say "here is the list" and if its not on the list, its not legal.

And it would be better than a "not approved" list as i am assuming now you run into the situation still of interpretation of the rules and what is considered NOT legal. One minute it could be fine, then next, on the list. In general seems if its approved it doesn't get unapproved if its the same body pull.

Just a thought and opinion based on what I am hearing from people willing to try the class who want to know what bodies are legal.

As it sits, since no one has a problem with the body I am using, I just tell people go with that as I know its legal
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:33 AM   #3232
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Second the Riley does not hold any advantage.....

Really? Drop a box and a wedge (of the same weight) from 1000 feet and see which one hits the ground first.


The K.I.S.S. method for classing GT cars:
There is an easy fix without a lot of wording that should define, for all time, this class and you never have to list a single car. Simply write the GT body rules to read: "Legal bodies are any body currently in production for street use by a known maker and sold through a dealership". Problem solved!

So what if Corvette, Ferrari and a couple other street cars are a little wedgy, none of those bodies have a sloped front end like a Riley that almost touches the ground. If there were a shortage of choices then I can see wanting to expend the body list for more variety, but we have many choices for this class that we didn't have 30 years ago, we should be grateful that we have it so good.

People have different tastes and there will always be people that will run a body they like, regardless of the aero features (like me). The new Camaro is a great example of that, it's boxy but it works, personally I prefer BMWs and not because they are faster....I like the looks!!
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:44 AM   #3233
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But the effort you invest in the front end pays off in the back end as if its not on the list, guess what, not approved. You also save on the questions of "is this legal, is it not", etc. Not on the list, not approved.
The only issue with a 'list' is that as new bodies come out the rules committee must convene to approve, or disapprove a body.....and it's always an evolving process.

Whatever happened to going by the "spirit of the rules"? Why do so many racers look for ways around the rules just to win? Where is the honor in that....or has 'honor' taken a backseat to winning? (nothing pleases me more than to beat someone that I know is cheating....)
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:46 AM   #3234
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This talk about bodies for GT cars brings back major deja vu' for me. A few years ago when I got started in racing I was talked into a relatively new class for 1/8 nitro GT cars. It was fun at first. Everybody had these cool looking GT bodies on their cars, like Ferrari 430's, Corvettes, Aston Martins, etc. The protoform GT8 was a purpose built body for the class and looked the part. Taller cars with cool GT style. Then came the guys that wanted the "fastest body" and some started using wedge shaped bodies from here and foreign lands, and some here at home made their own version of a wedge style body. The whole thing blew up and caused a whole lot of fighting and banning and generally bad stuff for the class. I lost interest because the reason I liked the class was now gone and the cars all resemble regular 1/8 scale wedge bodies and not the cool style it was made for.

For questionable bodies,you know who you are and why you are trying to do it. Because you want the advantage of the extra speed/downforce of the style of the body. Someone a few post back said something to the effect that these bodies are not what is winning races. What that means is that the guys wanting these bodies are convinced that they will go faster with a wedge type body and thats what keeps them from winning. When if fact a good driver with a shoebox for a body will probably beat them every time.

PLEASE keep this class as it was intended. You don't need the specific rules spelled out in extreme detail just to know what the class is for.


I really like what The Professor said above when he wrote "I really wish people would just stop trying to run crazy bodies. Basically if you have to ask, its 95% going to be a no." And I will add to that that if you need to ask then you already know that you shouldn't be doing it.



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Old 10-30-2014, 09:46 AM   #3235
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
...Talking with guys wanting to do USGT that is usually the first question, what bodies are legal, where can I get a list of bodies that are legal?
That's the beauty of USGT! I can race my "shelf queen" bodies from 8 years ago, like my HPI Lamborghini Diablo or my Tamiya ARTA Garaiya. There is no other racing class that allows such a wide variety of bodies like USGT. It is also good to have this forum to ask whether or not a particular body is OK to use in USGT.

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PLEASE keep this class as it was intended. You don't need the specific rules spelled out in extreme detail just to know what the class is for.
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Keep it simple, keep it cool, keep it fun.
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:56 AM   #3236
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Originally Posted by .crispy View Post
I do believe that creating a list of bodies, approved or disapproved, will cause Rob to be chasing his tail. I don't expect that.

I do believe it is possible to better define what type of body is permitted with very little work. One sentence would do it. And it would eliminate 99.9% of the questions. Of course my version of that sentence would eliminate racing cars, exotics & concept cars. Your mileage may vary.

I strongly believe that all "weasel words" like "discouraged" should be removed from a rule book. I downloaded the IndyCar rule book from the web. 261 pages and not one instance of "discouraged" in it. Also, I'll point out that they use "shall not" instead of "should not" because it eliminates ambiguity too.

Basically I just think some of us just want better definition and consistency. I don't understand why a DP looking body is legal, but a LMP looking body is illegal? Don't forget, the biggest advantage of tighter rules is you don't have to constantly modify them. They'll still work in the future when new bodies come out.
But then there wouldn't be anything to politely debate about on this thread!!!! BOOOO !!!!
IMO the Key words that need to be inserted into the rules are "street use/legal" and any words like "discouraged" should be deleted. Obviously that would stop some of the Mcallister bodies from being legal, but wasn't that the intention of this class from the outset? (Legal to drive on public roads GT/Street cars with a slower turn motor on a standard touring car chassis, whether they be exotic or not). Don't take my Pagani Zonda F away from me!
Whatever Kevin and Rob decide I will support. This class is awesome and I really enjoy racing it.
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:12 AM   #3237
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We are running a class here in Florida called Spec 175 GT. It is similar to USGT and is based on a Pan Car format. Check it out. www.spec175gt.com.
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:19 AM   #3238
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But then there wouldn't be anything to politely debate about on this thread!!!! BOOOO !!!!
IMO the Key words that need to be inserted into the rules are "street use/legal" and any words like "discouraged" should be deleted. Obviously that would stop some of the Mcallister bodies from being legal, but wasn't that the intention of this class from the outset? (Legal to drive on public roads GT/Street cars with a slower turn motor on a standard touring car chassis, whether they be exotic or not). Don't take my Pagani Zonda F away from me!
Whatever Kevin and Rob decide I will support. This class is awesome and I really enjoy racing it.
Production of the Zonda F was limited to 25 cars. BOOOO!!!

Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of exotics. But, Ferrari 458s are GT racing, so that is what it is.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:22 PM   #3239
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The K.I.S.S. method for classing GT cars:
There is an easy fix without a lot of wording that should define, for all time, this class and you never have to list a single car. Simply write the GT body rules to read: "Legal bodies are any body currently in production for street use by a known maker and sold through a dealership". Problem solved!
I think I know where you are going with this statement, but if it were a rule written just like that, then a crap ton of bodies would not be allowed. The rx7, rx8, saleen, gt40, mclaren, corvette. Blah blah. Basically any body that is not this model year. So that leaves well i cant think of any. Also this "known maker" is subject to interpretation. Some people know more about real car racing than others.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:42 PM   #3240
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The only issue with a 'list' is that as new bodies come out the rules committee must convene to approve, or disapprove a body.....and it's always an evolving process.
True.

But, the nice thing is that you take the guess work out of what is legal at that moment in time. And to be honest, after you have a more comprehensive list of say the more popular bodies, you probably aren't going to be approving hundreds at a whack and now the argument "is it legal" is done.

On the list, legal.

Heck, if there is that much concern to see what is being considered seems you can have a list of what is being considered. But I think something that says "yes, I'm legal" like USVTA would be nice and ultimately, simpler. I know it would make it easier for someone new to just have a list and go.

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Whatever happened to going by the "spirit of the rules"? Why do so many racers look for ways around the rules just to win? Where is the honor in that....or has 'honor' taken a backseat to winning? (nothing pleases me more than to beat someone that I know is cheating....)
Honestly I don't see it as a situation of honor, etc. Basically it seems that people are running to the letter of the rule.

To me at least, if for example in the "spirit of some rules" saucing tires wasn't in the spirit of the class, but not illegal, I really shouldn't get mad that you do because you aren't breaking the rules. If you want it to be a rule, then make it a rule. If you don't, then don't.

To me, my spirit is to have fun with my kids, yours may be to be ultra-competitive and put me down several laps by using that tuned beast of a 21.5 motor, top shelf speedo, and the body with the best handling characterstics.

If you aren't breaking a rule, then to each his own in my opinion. Whatever keeps you racing and turn outs up!

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That's the beauty of USGT! I can race my "shelf queen" bodies from 8 years ago, like my HPI Lamborghini Diablo or my Tamiya ARTA Garaiya. There is no other racing class that allows such a wide variety of bodies like USGT. It is also good to have this forum to ask whether or not a particular body is OK to use in USGT.
The bodies allowed in USGT and the more open motor manufacturers is something I like about USGT. Very fun stuff.
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