6280LikesUSGT
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03-30-2011, 08:28 AM
#227
This tire game for the perfect setup should be eliminated before it continues any further. One tire, one compound (or a choice of compounds) and be done with it. This mixing and matching for the "optimal combination" is a deadly path.
Just look at the tire boxes of off road racers to see where that problem leads. This conversation is already making me not want to run USGT.
Just look at the tire boxes of off road racers to see where that problem leads. This conversation is already making me not want to run USGT.
I agree with the spec tire rule for after this race. Too bad the cat is out of the bag for this race.
Kevin,
How many different sets of tires/inserts have you tried?
Rob,
Is our goal to bolster the r/c tire industry or have great close dood to door racng on a reasonable budget?
03-30-2011, 10:03 AM
#229
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Over the years....??? or for USGT? For USGT I have 2 sets of tires....I have 3 sets from when we raced RCGT over the last 2 summers. I have only used HPI tires because it’s what was easy to locate at my local track. All the tires I used the stock inserts aside from the HPI 4521's I went with a stiffer insert just to see how they felt....they are a little firmer then the stock insert.
Personally I don’t see the issue with the tires being more opened up. You the racer are now able to find a more cost effective tire for your racing needs. The HPI tires are not very cheap compared to the Integy tires or some of the other tires out of China or Japan. The wear rate of the tires on Asphalt is an issue...but again this is track dependant. I have been to tracks where I can get weeks out of a set of HPI tires....then I have been to other tracks where they last 1 day if I was lucky. On carpet the problem is that not all the tires work well at all the carpet tracks. Some tracks the Pro-compound tires would be better as they offer more grip....at other tracks the D-compound would be better as the track has more traction. Again to narrow this window up and spec a tire you run the risk of making this hard to survive at some tracks. This isn’t going to turn into a tire war like some people are perpetrating. Run what works best on your car and at your local track…period. If you want to go crazy with buying all kinds of tires then feel free its not going to get you some magical combo that no one else cant duplicate.
Do I think spec tires would be good….yes only if you are having major tire wear issues. Aside from this I think people are making too much of a big deal about it.
Personally I don’t see the issue with the tires being more opened up. You the racer are now able to find a more cost effective tire for your racing needs. The HPI tires are not very cheap compared to the Integy tires or some of the other tires out of China or Japan. The wear rate of the tires on Asphalt is an issue...but again this is track dependant. I have been to tracks where I can get weeks out of a set of HPI tires....then I have been to other tracks where they last 1 day if I was lucky. On carpet the problem is that not all the tires work well at all the carpet tracks. Some tracks the Pro-compound tires would be better as they offer more grip....at other tracks the D-compound would be better as the track has more traction. Again to narrow this window up and spec a tire you run the risk of making this hard to survive at some tracks. This isn’t going to turn into a tire war like some people are perpetrating. Run what works best on your car and at your local track…period. If you want to go crazy with buying all kinds of tires then feel free its not going to get you some magical combo that no one else cant duplicate.
Do I think spec tires would be good….yes only if you are having major tire wear issues. Aside from this I think people are making too much of a big deal about it.
03-30-2011, 01:46 PM
#230
I like my super cheapo $3 tires I found at integy since they work and i can put together a set for under $10 with the $1.50 rim they sell. It's actually an Eagle Racing (of Japan) tire.
That being said, it appears there is a concern somebody is going to find the magical tire. Let me say right now treaded Proline S3's are the only magical tire you might find that is unbelted (and I should ban them specifically, just in case anyone finds a NOS stash). Most of the good tires with tread like Pit Shimizu squiggles or the Ride V tread all had belts. Hpi is pretty much it, outside of a few other Tamiya tires or some of the OEM kit tires like AE was putting on the TC4. Hpi stuff seems to work, but I really don't know the other stuff. I guess what I'm saying is that tread tire=play toy to most of these manufacturers.
So as far as mounted treaded tires, this looks to be the only 26mm tires:
http://www.hpiracing.com/products/en/4702/
4 Mounted D compound X patterns $25 -$34 @ various retailers
http://www.eastcoastbt.com:8081/blas...oduct.php?p=55
Blast Off 4 mounted tires -listed at one Hong Kong online store for $9.50
I haven't tried the Blast Offs, but they are under the same umbrella as Speed Passion (King Golden), so they should be available. If they work, $10 is a price that cannot be beat.
Personally, I like mounting the tires, since you have a choice of rim offset and that is nice for 200mm bodies. Choosing your own rim is cool too.
See, the thing is that last weekend, Kevin K and I were trying stuff out, and we were with a tenth of each other on hot lap. On TOTALLY DIFFERENT tires and rims. Then the next day, I gave an extra set of tires to one of the guys at our track, Rich, who then proceeded to have the difference on hot lap be thousandths. The tires I gave him were on 24mm rims, I had 26mm rims. He had Yokomo spoke rims, 3mm offset, with Tamiya stock foams from a TA05 kit-nothing special. I had integy BBS rims, 3mm offset, with HPI foams (just the grey foam that comes with their tires). The tires were the same.
What's more important is to have your car working. Rich and Kevin's cars are both good on normal TC rubber, and they are good on funky treaded tires.
I'm not sure what the point of all this is right now. Maybe that it's not a huge, huge issue yet. I'd like to see what comes of this weekend's events. Actual competition should shed a lot of light on how big or not big of a problem this is.
IN OTHER NEWS, i'd like to remind everybody FWD cars are legal for USGT, and you get a 50g weight break. Bring out the FF03's!!!
That being said, it appears there is a concern somebody is going to find the magical tire. Let me say right now treaded Proline S3's are the only magical tire you might find that is unbelted (and I should ban them specifically, just in case anyone finds a NOS stash). Most of the good tires with tread like Pit Shimizu squiggles or the Ride V tread all had belts. Hpi is pretty much it, outside of a few other Tamiya tires or some of the OEM kit tires like AE was putting on the TC4. Hpi stuff seems to work, but I really don't know the other stuff. I guess what I'm saying is that tread tire=play toy to most of these manufacturers.
So as far as mounted treaded tires, this looks to be the only 26mm tires:
http://www.hpiracing.com/products/en/4702/
4 Mounted D compound X patterns $25 -$34 @ various retailers
http://www.eastcoastbt.com:8081/blas...oduct.php?p=55
Blast Off 4 mounted tires -listed at one Hong Kong online store for $9.50
I haven't tried the Blast Offs, but they are under the same umbrella as Speed Passion (King Golden), so they should be available. If they work, $10 is a price that cannot be beat.
Personally, I like mounting the tires, since you have a choice of rim offset and that is nice for 200mm bodies. Choosing your own rim is cool too.
See, the thing is that last weekend, Kevin K and I were trying stuff out, and we were with a tenth of each other on hot lap. On TOTALLY DIFFERENT tires and rims. Then the next day, I gave an extra set of tires to one of the guys at our track, Rich, who then proceeded to have the difference on hot lap be thousandths. The tires I gave him were on 24mm rims, I had 26mm rims. He had Yokomo spoke rims, 3mm offset, with Tamiya stock foams from a TA05 kit-nothing special. I had integy BBS rims, 3mm offset, with HPI foams (just the grey foam that comes with their tires). The tires were the same.
What's more important is to have your car working. Rich and Kevin's cars are both good on normal TC rubber, and they are good on funky treaded tires.
I'm not sure what the point of all this is right now. Maybe that it's not a huge, huge issue yet. I'd like to see what comes of this weekend's events. Actual competition should shed a lot of light on how big or not big of a problem this is.
IN OTHER NEWS, i'd like to remind everybody FWD cars are legal for USGT, and you get a 50g weight break. Bring out the FF03's!!!
03-30-2011, 05:01 PM
#231
Over the years....??? or for USGT? For USGT I have 2 sets of tires....I have 3 sets from when we raced RCGT over the last 2 summers. I have only used HPI tires because it’s what was easy to locate at my local track. All the tires I used the stock inserts aside from the HPI 4521's I went with a stiffer insert just to see how they felt....they are a little firmer then the stock insert.
Personally I don’t see the issue with the tires being more opened up. You the racer are now able to find a more cost effective tire for your racing needs. The HPI tires are not very cheap compared to the Integy tires or some of the other tires out of China or Japan. The wear rate of the tires on Asphalt is an issue...but again this is track dependant. I have been to tracks where I can get weeks out of a set of HPI tires....then I have been to other tracks where they last 1 day if I was lucky. On carpet the problem is that not all the tires work well at all the carpet tracks. Some tracks the Pro-compound tires would be better as they offer more grip....at other tracks the D-compound would be better as the track has more traction. Again to narrow this window up and spec a tire you run the risk of making this hard to survive at some tracks. This isn’t going to turn into a tire war like some people are perpetrating. Run what works best on your car and at your local track…period. If you want to go crazy with buying all kinds of tires then feel free its not going to get you some magical combo that no one else cant duplicate.
Do I think spec tires would be good….yes only if you are having major tire wear issues. Aside from this I think people are making too much of a big deal about it.
Personally I don’t see the issue with the tires being more opened up. You the racer are now able to find a more cost effective tire for your racing needs. The HPI tires are not very cheap compared to the Integy tires or some of the other tires out of China or Japan. The wear rate of the tires on Asphalt is an issue...but again this is track dependant. I have been to tracks where I can get weeks out of a set of HPI tires....then I have been to other tracks where they last 1 day if I was lucky. On carpet the problem is that not all the tires work well at all the carpet tracks. Some tracks the Pro-compound tires would be better as they offer more grip....at other tracks the D-compound would be better as the track has more traction. Again to narrow this window up and spec a tire you run the risk of making this hard to survive at some tracks. This isn’t going to turn into a tire war like some people are perpetrating. Run what works best on your car and at your local track…period. If you want to go crazy with buying all kinds of tires then feel free its not going to get you some magical combo that no one else cant duplicate.
Do I think spec tires would be good….yes only if you are having major tire wear issues. Aside from this I think people are making too much of a big deal about it.
I recall being at The Track one saturday where you were mounting and testing different tires for USGT.
It appears the tire wars have begun, only like Obama, you don't call it a war....
As you know, I have been doing this a long time. I clearly recall the days of " You the racer are now able to find" and glueing up tires/inserts on wheels, only to find " not all the tires work well " which I am certain you also learned the hard way. For this weekend, I have turned to my magic and very expensive "box-O-old tires" and have many tire/insert wheels left from past tire wars to fill my arsenal for USGT. I am not concerned about my ability to find something for this weekend, but for the longevity of the concept that USGT affords.
THAT is the point Rob!
Some of us can afford more R/C dollors than others. Some of us are not to keen on the idea of "wasting" our R/C dollors on tire explorations for a NEW class that may or may not take off.
When I wrote the VTA rules for Tracksides program, the only cost for someone to "find" the right tire/insert wheel combination to reach parity with the field was for ONE SET OF TIRES!
Appearantly, Doug agreed and used the Trackside VTA rules as a solid template as what was right to acheive his vision, USVTA. (kudos to Doug)
Parity (real and specially perceived) through specification brings close, cost controlled racing. look at every successfull series in the world of motor sports to find the wisdom of the decades.
03-30-2011, 05:39 PM
#232
Again, we shall see. Bring all magical tires. Remember that all magical inserts must be open cell foam. Please try your hardest to find the magic, because it will help us try to figure this out. 
Seriously, so far i have not seen a huge difference, and I would like to be proven wrong.
Seriously, so far i have not seen a huge difference, and I would like to be proven wrong.
03-30-2011, 06:05 PM
#233
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I see from your post that you agree there are many types of tires from various manufacturers available, let alone trying softer or harder inserts, as you admit "I went with a stiffer insert just to see how ..."
I recall being at The Track one saturday where you were mounting and testing different tires for USGT.
It appears the tire wars have begun, only like Obama, you don't call it a war.....
I recall being at The Track one saturday where you were mounting and testing different tires for USGT.
It appears the tire wars have begun, only like Obama, you don't call it a war.....
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts.That Saturday you were there I mounted up 1 count them 1 set of tires....the 4521's....which I still have...of my 2...count them 2 USGT sets of tires. The purpose of the inserts was to see how the tires would react to see if indeed we needed to limit the inserts and tires. BUT low and behold much like rob and I have been saying it doesn’t matter in lap times. There is no way to know this unless we tried it. If at that point they would have been faster or whatever I know we would have "re-thunk" the rules.
In conclusion the tires that Rob and I along with others have tried there isn’t a hill of beans difference between them on the track as far as lap times goes. Again this is all in regards to the track we race on....not all tracks are equal so to limit it and make the class harder to run at some tracks wasn’t a wise choice in our eyes....thats the reason for the open tire rule. If this ever becomes an issue aside from internet talking it can be adjusted.
Like rob said please show us how we are wrong.
03-30-2011, 07:31 PM
#235
Only the D compounds are the same as the VTA tires. The Pro's and Radial pro's are quite different.
I think the overall different construction of the tire needs to be considered also. This comparison is actually apples to oranges.
I'll second the vote on making the x-patterns the "spec" tire. Advantage ?
A. they work
B. 3 compounds to suit different needs...all with the same insert and tread pattern.
C. Cost is comparable with VTA tires so the program can be promoted the same way with emphasis on the other cost saving benefits (motors,spec esc's, no need for top of the line chassis)
Disadvantage: None unless you want to find one. God forbid VTA tires were all one size and didn't require special wheels......can we all imagine the effect on VTA.
I think the overall different construction of the tire needs to be considered also. This comparison is actually apples to oranges.
I'll second the vote on making the x-patterns the "spec" tire. Advantage ?
A. they work
B. 3 compounds to suit different needs...all with the same insert and tread pattern.
C. Cost is comparable with VTA tires so the program can be promoted the same way with emphasis on the other cost saving benefits (motors,spec esc's, no need for top of the line chassis)
Disadvantage: None unless you want to find one. God forbid VTA tires were all one size and didn't require special wheels......can we all imagine the effect on VTA.
03-30-2011, 08:37 PM
#236
Again, I think the X patterns are great tires. I just heard many complaints of the cost vs. how many runs people were getting.
All I ever wanted to do was allow people to find a less expensive tire that was good. If you look at regular sedans, the tires can be had for $30-$35 a set for full race tires. The Xpatterns typically cost at least that much to build up.
I'd like to just see how things play out this weekend to start. Everybody keep your pants on...even though I know that will disappoint Seaball...
All I ever wanted to do was allow people to find a less expensive tire that was good. If you look at regular sedans, the tires can be had for $30-$35 a set for full race tires. The Xpatterns typically cost at least that much to build up.
I'd like to just see how things play out this weekend to start. Everybody keep your pants on...even though I know that will disappoint Seaball...
03-30-2011, 10:32 PM
#238
Is this for real?? Or just the usual short course layout?
