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Old 06-27-2004, 03:16 PM   #11311
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Hey guys,

Got a question.

As I am accelerating out of turns I'm getting squirrelly, my back end is swinging out.

The week before I was perfect.

The only thing changed was all my ball cups to RPM ones. I did my best with a caliper to make sure that all of the turnbuckles were the same size. I also, put the car on the integy big purple set up station. and put my settings back to what they were.

Toe in was 0 in the front, I have 4 degree hubs in the back.

Camber was -1 all around.


Thanks,


Nick

Last edited by JohnMatrix; 06-27-2004 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 06-27-2004, 04:24 PM   #11312
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Track conditions and tire wear can change a lot from one week to the next. The same setup on a car can be dialed one day and be crap the next. Even from run to run if there's drastic changes in track temp and contidions.
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Old 06-27-2004, 05:04 PM   #11313
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looks like u need more forward bite try more toe in in the rear
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:37 PM   #11314
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john, try moving out one hole on the upper shock hole on the tower. In Hodges article it says that increases traction on power coming out of turns, and I've done it several times and seen it work well. Doing this will give you an increase in off power steering as well, so you may have to reduce your drag brake if you have any dialed in.

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Old 06-27-2004, 06:38 PM   #11315
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oops... I forgot to say I'm talking about the rear shock tower.

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Old 06-27-2004, 06:39 PM   #11316
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Can u run tamiya shocks on a losi?
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:49 PM   #11317
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Quote:
Originally posted by racer-oZ
john, try moving out one hole on the upper shock hole on the tower. In Hodges article it says that increases traction on power coming out of turns, and I've done it several times and seen it work well. Doing this will give you an increase in off power steering as well, so you may have to reduce your drag brake if you have any dialed in.

racer-oZ
Thanks Oz,

I thought moving it in would be the right course, and tried that at the track yesterday but i was still loose.

But now i will try moving it out a spot instead.

Thanks
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:51 PM   #11318
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Yes.
Quote:
Originally posted by kevin2
Can u run tamiya shocks on a losi?
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Old 06-27-2004, 07:05 PM   #11319
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cool thanx
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Old 06-27-2004, 07:39 PM   #11320
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Default Hodge article on tuning XXX-s

Racer-oZ: What article are you talking about. I starting to get back into touring car racing with my XXX-s. Can you send me a link to the Hodge article you are talking about.

Thanks
Nino


Quote:
Originally posted by racer-oZ
john, try moving out one hole on the upper shock hole on the tower. In Hodges article it says that increases traction on power coming out of turns, and I've done it several times and seen it work well. Doing this will give you an increase in off power steering as well, so you may have to reduce your drag brake if you have any dialed in.

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Old 06-27-2004, 09:52 PM   #11321
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Default 10v 10,000uf

i have a question you guys have prob. answered a thousand times before. i have a fusion speed control is a 10v 10,000uf cap going to do me any good? if so how do i install it?
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:19 PM   #11322
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Here is my slightly edited version of Todd's original article. Hope this is OK with Todd.

Hooking Up Your XXX-S Graphite Plus on Asphalt by Todd Hodge

As I write these articles, I hope you can use them as an encyclopedia of how to tune your many Team Losi RC vehicles. This month I am going to cover the Team Losi XXX-S GP touring car. There are many different types of surfaces that you can run your TC on and this article will mainly stay focused on rubber tires on asphalt and concrete. Both surfaces have the same similarities with at times having not much grip and other times having more grip than a carpet track. I will also include some of the new tricks that the Team Losi Factory Pilots are using on their TC’s.

To start, let’s talk about the basics of the setup,

Front toe in/out
Generally. I start with 0 degrees of toe. This is always a great starting point to get a feel for the first run on the track. As I get oriented with the track I will evaluate what I need. If I need more steering but do not want to go changing the setup I will add a one-degree of front toe in. This will make the car track straighter on the straights and give you more overall steering. However, if I want less steering, I will run 1 degree of toe out. This will make the car initiate the turn better and be smoother throughout the turn basically because you will have less steering.

Ride height and camber
Another thing that is overlooked is ride height. You can really change how the car drives by adjusting your ride height. I always start my car out at 5mm ride height on the front and the rear. If I need more steering I will lower the front ride height by .5mm This will help the front of the car take a set into the turn when you let off the throttle giving the car more front traction. Another thing to keep in mind about ride height is that when the traction comes up your ride height should go down. I will lower the front and rear down to 4mm. This will drop the CG (Center of Gravity) and will give the car more corner speed. For the front camber I will start out at –1 degree and it usually stays there.

Caster and kickup
On my TC it is always at 4 degrees of caster. Less caster will make the car initiate the turn quicker, give the car more on power steering and tends to make the car a bit twitchy. More caster will have more steering through the center of the turn, less on power steering and make the car smoother to drive. You can adjust the kickup on the XXX-S GP as well. I almost always stick with 0 degrees of kick since it seems to work well everywhere. However if you do get on a bumpy parking lot track more kickup will help the car be stable through the bumps and give a feel of more rear traction. There also have been times that I have run anti-dive in the front of my car. This works really well when you need to slightly bump the brakes with a one-way. Anti dive helps keep the car from unloading the rear weight to the front and keeps the front of that car flat. This is actually how we were able to use brakes at the end of the straight away at the 2001 ROAR On-Road Nationals at Speedworld Raceway.

Sway bars
Most of the tracks I race on tend to be medium to high bite so I like to run a front sway bar. A front sway bar will help the car stay flat and not want to dump over the front and get grabby when the bite comes up. It will also let the car transition through chicanes easier. For asphalt racing, I will start with .060 bar and go from there. If the car needs more steering in the middle of the turn, then a thinner sway bar will go on the front. One thing to do with your sway bar is to check them and make sure they are flat. This is done by simply putting your bar on a piece of glass and pushing on one end and seeing if the other end comes up. Then vice versa. You want your bar to be perfectly flat on the glass. If it is tweaked then carefully work the bar in your hand until you get it flat as possible. Another tip to do is make your own sway bar link out of two short ball cups and 7/16” droop screw. The reason for this is to be able to adjust one link so you can make your car tweak perfectly flat. Before the front bar gets attached to both sides of your car, make sure your car is flat on the tweak station. Now take you new made sway bar link with attached to the arm and see if it lines up perfectly with the ball stud on the sway bar while your other standard set Losi link is attached to the arm and sway bar. If your adjustable link does not line up with the ball stud simply readjust it until it does line up. Once it lines up pop it on and re check your tweak. If you go it right the bubble on your tweak station should have not moved a bit.

Droop
Droop usually sits around 3mm to 4mm. The less droop you run will make the car react faster and give you more off-power steering. The more droop you run will make the car react slower and give you more on-power steering. I always measure the droop off of the setscrew boss on the caster block. Another tip for setting your droop is to get rid of the droop screws and just limit your shocks. I have .060” limiter in my front shocks and just unscrew the shock end to get the appropriate droop setting. I personally feel setting the droop this way improves the handling of the car since you are no having the droop screws flex the bumper causing your droop to change during a run.

Arm Spacing
This is something that I have been testing a lot. 90% of the time I like to have my arms all the way forward. This gives the car a smoother steering feel and makes the car drive super consistent. I have actually been running the front arms another .050” further forward from stock and in my opinion this has yielded the best results on carpet and asphalt racing. This is done by simply shaving .050” off the front pivot support and then adding a .050” shim behind the arm. As you move the arms back on the car you start to increase the front dogbone angle which makes the car steer a lot more aggressively and takes consistency away. Now that I have my arms moved even further forward I needed to correct the Ackerman on the car. This was done by taking the front steering mounts and moving them to the forward holes and flipping them so that the small hole side of the bell crank was pointing forward (take a picture of this so it will be understood better).

Front drive
I have a lot of people ask me if a one-way is the way to go in TC. This really depends on how much experience you have. If you are just starting out, I would recommend a front diff since it makes the car easier to drive and you are able to use the brakes. Another option is a spool, which makes the car easier to drive and gives you the forward acceleration advantage that a one-way gives. The only immediate disadvantage of the spool is that it will make the car push bad off-power and so some setup change will be necessary. For most parking lot tracks I would say a diff is the best since the bite never really comes up. However if you do race on a medium to high bite track then a one-way is the may be the ticket. Just remember if you have never tried a one-way make sure you go and practice a little to get use to the way it drives. Another tuning option on your XXX-S GP is the pulley size. You can run overdrive and underdrive. You can run overdrive by using the small 41T pulley in the front. This will increase your off-power and on-power steering tremendously and will work well with a spool. Running the 41T in the rear of the car will under-drive the car and make it push.

Bump steer
This is another very important tuning aid. I generally tend to run no bump steer washers to start with. If I want my car to turn in real hard I will add washers to the spindle ball stud which will make the front tires bump out under suspension compression. This can make the car hard to drive and inconsistent depending on how many washers you use. At the Indoor Champs and the ROAR On-road Nationals, I have had my car get very darty and hard to drive as the traction comes up. I have fixed this problem by adding washers, one or two gold washers (.030” per washer), to the bell crank ball stud which makes the front tires bump in under suspension compression.

Servo saver
Another tip for your steering, when using a high quality servo and the Team Losi servo saver find an extra gold spring and place it over the current gold spring. So now you will have four springs on your servo saver. This helps the servo saver from wandering and keeps the servo centered on high bite tracks.

Front Camber Link
I always start with the # 2 link and tend to stay there since I like the balance it gives the car. If you are looking for a smoother feel and more on power steering then try the #3 link, which is shorter. As for the camber link ball stud, it is always the Team Losi chrome short neck ball stud.

Front Shock Position
I normally run the #3 position on the shock tower which makes the car react quick and gives it great on power steering. If you want the car to react slower and have less steering you can move the shocks in on the tower

Front Shocks
This is something that you need to pay attention to. You can really dial in your car by simply increasing and decreasing your shock oil. I currently run anywhere from 30 to 60 wt shock oil in my front shocks depending on what I want my car to do and this also depends on temperature. Usually during the winter months it tends to get cold and you will want to lighten your shock oil. You can make your car have a lot more traction and responsiveness by running lighter shock oil. However be careful because if you go too light the car can get hard to drive. As the weather gets warmer during the summer months you can increase the oil to make the car more predictable and easier to drive. For shock pistons I like to run #56 pistons. This has the best balance. If I want my car to react quicker I will then go to a #57 piston and drop 10 weight on the shock oil so I have close to the same static feel. For the spring it usually starts with a Team Losi blue spring, which is 14.6lb. If want the car to react faster and have more steering I will then start increasing the front spring rate.

Front Roll Center
The XXX-SGP comes with both high and low front roll centers. I want to clarify something for everyone on this. The new low front roll center is actually a mid roll center which means that is not the full .150” lower than the high. It is .075” lower than the high. Trinity offers the Matt Francis edition roll center mounts, which gives you the high roll center and the full low roll center. A lot of the team setup sheets show us running with the MF low roll center blocks and then raising them .075. This is the same thing as he new Team Losi low roll center mounts. On asphalt I always run the Losi low roll center mounts with the 2F block, which gives you 0 degree kick. As you go to a full low front roll center the front of the car will want to dump more over the front giving you more steering. As you run the high roll center the car will stay flatter, have less steering and react quicker when transitioning right to left.

Rear Suspension
Now moving to the rear of the car we start with the rear toe in. For mod TC I start with the standard 2 degrees of rear toe in. If I am on loose track such as a parking lot track I will then run ½ degree hubs to obtain 2.5 degrees of toe in. In stock TC it is vice versa, I will run the ½ degree hubs backwards to obtain 1.5 degrees of toe in. This helps with stock racing to get the car freer through the turns and faster on the straightaway.

Droop
I start my car at 5mm of rear droop. This is measured with a Team Losi droop gauge and is measured from the center of the rear hub. To gain more rear traction I will increase rear droop to 4mm and if I want less rear traction I will decrease rear droop to 6mm. Again this is something that you should test on your own to get a feel for what you like out of your car.

Rear pivot
I start with the OR block since it is a good starting point and it is where I usually end up after I complete my setup. I can increase forward traction and side bite by simply putting on the 2R block, which gives the car 2 degrees of anti-squat. By using low roll center you can also get pro-squat on your car by running the 4R block in the high roll center holes on the diff cover. This helps the car steer a lot and can be advantageous on high bite tracks.

Rear arm spacing
Is another great traction aid. You can add rear traction by running your arms in the forward position. I like to start with my rear arms in the middle position and go from there. Another thing some of the team likes to do is shim the rear arm spacing by .030” instead of using the .060” spacers used in the kit. Team Losi sells a shock spacer kit that has .030”, .060”, .090”, and .120” spacers. You can fine-tune your car by using the .030” spacers and moving the arm in .030” increments.

Offset vs. Standard rear hubs
The XXX-S GP comes with the new Offset rear end. This rear end uses a shorter arm and then balances the offset by using a wider hub. I recommend this rear end on high bite tracks where you need your car to steer. However, for most tracks, I like the standard rear end because it has a lot of stability and makes the car a lot more fluid. This also depends on your driving style on what you may rear end you may like.

Rear camber link position
I generally start with 2/A since it has great steering and decent stability. If I am lacking rear stability and rear traction I will use the same length rear link but just move it to 3/B. If I want to increase my rear stability even more I will then start to go in on the rear tower to hole #2.This will make the car stay flatter in the rear and have more forward grip. Another option for your rear camber link is the height of your ball stud. You can use the kit short neck ball stud or use a standard black ball stud, which is .030” higher. The short neck ball stud helps the car react faster and helps the car initiate the turn better. The long neck ball stud helps the car rotate more and will also increase on power steering. This is something I always play with at the track to fine tune my ride.

Shock position
For most tracks I will start with Hole #2 on the rear tower and outside on the arm for my shock position. If I want my car to have more forward traction and be more stable, I will then stand up my rear shocks to Hole #3. This will make the car react faster through chicanes; however, it will hurt steering on the exit of some turns. On the arm, I always run the outside hole on the arm.

Rear shocks
Now moving onto the rear shocks. Like the front, I start anywhere from 30wt to 60wt depending on how I want the car to work and the temperature. During colder months, I will run 30wt to 35wt in the rear shocks to get my car to have more traction. However as the weather starts to heat up I will need to increase my oil to keep my car from being erratic and hard to drive. For pistons I run #56 and usually stick with it. I can tune the pistons to change the way my car handles. By running a #55 piston I can make the car roll more into the turn and carry a bit more speed however it does take away some stability. Generally, if I do make a bigger hole piston, I will change the oil as well to have the same static feel of the shock. For example, I am running 40wt oil with 56 piston and I want to go to a #55 piston I will run 50wt oil.

Rear roll center
Is all about low roll center. I have tested this back and fourth and I am sold on low rear roll center. The only time I will run a high roll center in the rear is when track conditions are super loose. However I doubt I will change it and I will tune my car in another way.

Battery position
Some other miscellaneous notes are to always run the battery in the forward position. Moving it back just takes helps the car get into the turn but hurts on power steering tremendously.

Gears
I run only 64 pitch gears since they are the most efficient and have the most power. For mod and stock racing here are some gear ratios that I use. Remember that track size does matter so if you are on a smaller track tend to use the lower gear and vice versa.

Motor Pinion/Spur
7 turn 26-27/128
8 turn 27-28/128
9 turn 28-29/128
10 turn 29-30/128
Monster Stock 33-34/128

Bodies
Lastly lets talk about bodies. A lot of racers are discovering the new Team Losi Alfa Romeo. This is the body I start with everywhere. It has the most overall rear traction and steering of any body that I have tried. You can tune with one body quite a bit by simply moving it forward or back on your car. I start with the dimple holes that come on the body. If I want more steering, I will then have another body with it moved forward about .200”. This is basically putting more pressure on the front tires and will make the car generate a lot more steering.

Hopefully this article will help you dial in your XXX-S the next time you hit the track! Until next time….Good luck and thanks for coming!
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Last edited by JRX-S Bill; 07-01-2004 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:28 PM   #11323
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Default Re: 10v 10,000uf

Quote:
Originally posted by e money
i have a question you guys have prob. answered a thousand times before. i have a fusion speed control is a 10v 10,000uf cap going to do me any good? if so how do i install it?
It'll propably help when you run mod, but not so necissary for just stock.
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Old 06-27-2004, 11:19 PM   #11324
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Default help questions

Can anyone tell me if they have tried the SSG shock towers from Speed Tech? They look cool, but I was wondering if they are 3mm thick and if they are the same as the stock ones?

Also can anyone tell me what shock shafts I need to get better ground clearance in the front and rear. I would like to keep the shock collars evened out on the rear. In stock form, I have to keep the rear collars threaded all the way down just to get my rear highth at 5mm.

One more question, I run on a dusty track and I was wondering if anyone uses shock socks? I have seen them for off road. I would like to use one so I don't have to rebuild them so often. Any input and a company that makes them for the XXX-S would help me much.
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Old 06-27-2004, 11:20 PM   #11325
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Arm Spacing
This is something that I have been testing a lot of. 90% of the time I like to have my arms all the way forward. This gives the car a smoother steering feel and makes the car drive super consistent. I have actually been running the front arms another .050” further forward from stock and in my opinion this has yielded the best results on carpet and asphalt racing. This is done by simply shaving .050” off the front pivot support and then adding a .050” shim behind the arm. As you move the arms back on the car you start to increase the front dogbone angle which makes the car steer a lot more aggressively and takes consistency away. Now that I have my arms moved even further forward I needed to correct the Ackerman on the car. This was done by taking the front steering mounts and moving them to the forward holes and flipping them so that the small hole side of the bell crank was pointing forward (take a picture of this so it will be understood better).

Rear arm spacing
Is another great traction aid. You can add rear traction by running your arms in the forward position. I like to start with my rear arms in the middle position and go from there. Another thing some of the team likes to do is shim the rear arm spacing by .030” instead of using the .060” spacers used in the kit. Team Losi sells a shock spacer kit that has .030”, .060”, .090”, and .120” spacers. You can fine-tune your car by using the .030” spacers and moving the arm in .030” increments.


any pictures? on this. little confussed.
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