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Old 11-26-2010, 08:57 PM   #1441
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Guys, I have a question.

Why does the kit come with toe blocks for arm sweep and when do you use it. This is the second kit I've built where it calls for it in the manual when building the kit. My PHI 09 was the same way. Once I got away from the arm sweep the car was so much better. The TCX seems to be the same way. We race on carpet and the car is so unpredictable from lap to lap that I can hardly get in a rhythm. I have toe plates coming to remove arm sweep and wanted to know which one to use.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:18 PM   #1442
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Thanks for the replies everyone! What size are the small shims to take up the slack?

You can just put the e-clip on the bottom below the piston and give it a little twist so as to take up the extra play in the gap.

Only needs to be about 0.2mm twist.

I do it on all my cars on and offroad never had a problem as long as you dont twist it to much.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:34 AM   #1443
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Originally Posted by silky View Post
Guys, I have a question.

Why does the kit come with toe blocks for arm sweep and when do you use it. This is the second kit I've built where it calls for it in the manual when building the kit. My PHI 09 was the same way. Once I got away from the arm sweep the car was so much better. The TCX seems to be the same way. We race on carpet and the car is so unpredictable from lap to lap that I can hardly get in a rhythm. I have toe plates coming to remove arm sweep and wanted to know which one to use.
Maybe its the case that your driving style doesnt suit the amount of sweep the kit runs...

Im fairly new to the Hot Bodies side of setup myself, but am really quite liking the 2.5degree of front arm sweep, gives a bundle of initial steering which allows for effortless steering input, though if you do start overdriving on steering it wont like it, which i have found.

The less front sweep, the less initial steering you will get. Obviously if you want to try none a 0 degree front block is what your after. Seems the general Hb setups are either 1.5,2.0,2.5 though.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:50 AM   #1444
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Originally Posted by steveonamission View Post
Maybe its the case that your driving style doesnt suit the amount of sweep the kit runs...

Im fairly new to the Hot Bodies side of setup myself, but am really quite liking the 2.5degree of front arm sweep, gives a bundle of initial steering which allows for effortless steering input, though if you do start overdriving on steering it wont like it, which i have found.

The less front sweep, the less initial steering you will get. Obviously if you want to try none a 0 degree front block is what your after. Seems the general Hb setups are either 1.5,2.0,2.5 though.

interesting enough I find the opposite to be true. I think 0 deg blocks give more initial steering while as I go up in degrees it gives less initial and more mid to exit steering. I think it has something to do with caster and also, to a small degree, ackerman.
not trying to start a fight but just putting in my $0.02 .... lol
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:19 AM   #1445
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interesting enough I find the opposite to be true. I think 0 deg blocks give more initial steering while as I go up in degrees it gives less initial and more mid to exit steering. I think it has something to do with caster and also, to a small degree, ackerman.
not trying to start a fight but just putting in my $0.02 .... lol
Yeah thats cool, interesting though, i ran a 1.5 block last night, but went back to the 2.5 because i couldnt get the nose of my car in on a certain corner.Once i went back to the kit 2.5, it seemed better initially. It could of been even that my car needed the mid corner steering and was already pointing in the right direction on initial turn, so your findings could add up aswell.
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:20 AM   #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveonamission View Post
Maybe its the case that your driving style doesnt suit the amount of sweep the kit runs...

Im fairly new to the Hot Bodies side of setup myself, but am really quite liking the 2.5degree of front arm sweep, gives a bundle of initial steering which allows for effortless steering input, though if you do start overdriving on steering it wont like it, which i have found.

The less front sweep, the less initial steering you will get. Obviously if you want to try none a 0 degree front block is what your after. Seems the general Hb setups are either 1.5,2.0,2.5 though.
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Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
interesting enough I find the opposite to be true. I think 0 deg blocks give more initial steering while as I go up in degrees it gives less initial and more mid to exit steering. I think it has something to do with caster and also, to a small degree, ackerman.
not trying to start a fight but just putting in my $0.02 .... lol
I'll have to do some testing on Monday to see what I can find out. I like to try these things out on practice days. It does seam like every setup sheet I have seen has some arm sweep. The car just likes it. It would seem that more arm sweep would give you more ackerman and more inital, just like adding spacers on the Cyclone or TC.

I also think that arm sweep also changes the traction point for the front end, moving it forward or backward. I think this changes weight distribution when cornering.

Last edited by Jaz406; 11-27-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:44 PM   #1447
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Default sweep

With more sweep as the wieght is transferred to either side the wheel base changes as the suspension compresses.

With my car I found it makes the car rotate more/more steering from the middle to exit of the corner.. the more sweep u run. So less sweep i guess the oposite is true.. i like to run 1.5 sweep as it seems to settle the car for me.

Kinda makes sense as the car turns and the weight is transferred the wheel base changes making the car turn more.

With ackerman it changes it a little but i have not really worried about that with changes in sweep..
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:20 PM   #1448
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Originally Posted by steveonamission View Post
Maybe its the case that your driving style doesnt suit the amount of sweep the kit runs...

Im fairly new to the Hot Bodies side of setup myself, but am really quite liking the 2.5degree of front arm sweep, gives a bundle of initial steering which allows for effortless steering input, though if you do start overdriving on steering it wont like it, which i have found.

The less front sweep, the less initial steering you will get. Obviously if you want to try none a 0 degree front block is what your after. Seems the general Hb setups are either 1.5,2.0,2.5 though.
Thats just it, the initial steering input is so abrupt that the car is out of shape before I make it thru the turn. What I found to work best on carpet and from what I've seen is that the fast cars are the most composed and settled on the track. The cars that are jerky and darty to the touch are the ones that are getting lapped. That leads me to believe that arm sweep is an asphalt tuning aid.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:47 PM   #1449
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Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
interesting enough I find the opposite to be true. I think 0 deg blocks give more initial steering while as I go up in degrees it gives less initial and more mid to exit steering. I think it has something to do with caster and also, to a small degree, ackerman.
not trying to start a fight but just putting in my $0.02 .... lol
I have found the same to be true. My steering got better and my laptimes got faster when I took sweep out of the front end. 0 block up front =TQ and wins
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:26 AM   #1450
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Originally Posted by silky View Post
Thats just it, the initial steering input is so abrupt that the car is out of shape before I make it thru the turn. What I found to work best on carpet and from what I've seen is that the fast cars are the most composed and settled on the track. The cars that are jerky and darty to the touch are the ones that are getting lapped. That leads me to believe that arm sweep is an asphalt tuning aid.
I guess there are other area's of thought to consider rather than just the amount of front arm sweep making the car struggle being progressive through the corners though...

Raising the Inner front camber link will help smooth cornering out and reduce the bite.....ive been running 3mm there with the 2.5d front block. So maybe thats just a good combination for me, but sure theres always room for improvement and better feeling.

Usually from my opinon if the cars are darty, then they are suffering from too much front grip, and sure enough theres a few other areas that can address that problem.

This is all down to track layout though and grip level as said.

This is just my view on things, its good to hear other peoples experiences.

I will try a 0 block and come back soon and will post back with my findings, i'll probably come back saying it was much better.
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:27 AM   #1451
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Originally Posted by steveonamission View Post
I guess there are other area's of thought to consider rather than just the amount of front arm sweep making the car struggle being progressive through the corners though...

Raising the Inner front camber link will help smooth cornering out and reduce the bite.....ive been running 3mm there with the 2.5d front block. So maybe thats just a good combination for me, but sure theres always room for improvement and better feeling.

Usually from my opinon if the cars are darty, then they are suffering from too much front grip, and sure enough theres a few other areas that can address that problem.

This is all down to track layout though and grip level as said.

This is just my view on things, its good to hear other peoples experiences.

I will try a 0 block and come back soon and will post back with my findings, i'll probably come back saying it was much better.
The 0 block gave me more initial steering (IMO) I was able to get in the corners faster and and it seemed to carry decent corner speed. Sweep seemed like it helped through the middle and exit but that didn't do me any good if I was scrubbing speed getting into the turn. This could be personal preference but it worked for me and the laptimes showed it did make me faster. I'm curious to hear how things work out for you. Good luck
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:31 AM   #1452
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Hiro, will this chassis be an option ??
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:15 AM   #1453
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Here is a guy in Germany who make this Chassis
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:17 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
interesting enough I find the opposite to be true. I think 0 deg blocks give more initial steering while as I go up in degrees it gives less initial and more mid to exit steering. I think it has something to do with caster and also, to a small degree, ackerman.
not trying to start a fight but just putting in my $0.02 .... lol
I find that the 2.5 blocks makes the steering too sensitive and create more scrub before entering the corner, thus i tend to stick with 0, 1, 1.5blocks. Do correct if i'm wrong.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:38 PM   #1455
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Here is a guy in Germany who make this Chassis
Thanks.
Maybe Exotech can come up with something ...



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Originally Posted by ali_g View Post
I find that the 2.5 blocks makes the steering too sensitive and create more scrub before entering the corner, thus i tend to stick with 0, 1, 1.5blocks. Do correct if i'm wrong.
well I can't say your wrong if that's what you're feeling.
what I do is go to the 2.5 block when I need more mid corner and when I want to finish the corner a little more aggressively. I always thought that with a 2.5 block that you were putting in a little bit of reactive caster and that was the reason for more mid corner steering.
my $.02
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