R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-02-2010, 04:07 PM   #196
Tech Master
 
Me_MrTyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,801
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Me_MrTyson Send a message via Skype™ to Me_MrTyson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Is it true 30deg on those motors, or 30deg on top of the normal level of timing.
Hey man.. this is the information I found out after loosing my motor.

The Novak Ballistic motors have 360 degrees of timing

Ballistic Motor Timing Information Update (Preliminary)

In an effort to answer a number of questions relating to motor timing we have compiled some information to help you better understand static motor timing and its effects with our Ballistic Series of motors.

“How many Degrees of Timing does my Ballistic Motor have?”

Our Ballistic motors come with their timing calibrated and set from the factory. Using custom built and calibrated electronic equipment we set each and every motor to 30 degrees of timing. After Calibration the timing label is added and this set timing corresponds to the “N” on the timing label on the side

Each line on the label denotes a 5 degree change, so the timing available on the motor the label corresponds as follows:

-3 -2 -1 N +1 +2 +3
15 20 25 30 35 40 45

N = 30 (rows do not line up correctly)

SPECIAL NOTE: The timing we are describing is the ACTUAL ELECTRICAL TIMING in the motor, not just some arbitrarily reference made from a point on the outside of the motor like many of our competitors' motors. This makes comparing timing settings between different brands of motors difficult without the proper equipment.

“What Does Timing Adjustment do?”

We set our timing at an optimized point for most general applications. Adjusting the timing should only be done in small increments and with great care to observe the changes in system performance and temperatures.

WE RECOMMEND THAT YOUR SYSTEM’S TEMPERATURE NEVER EXCEED 160 DEGREES FARENHEIGHT.

When adjusting the timing, we recommend adjusting the timing, at most, 1 notch, or 5 degrees at a time.

When you turn the timing up to a more positive number (from N to +1) your motor will produce more no-load RPM and generally suffer a slight reduction in torque. To combat excessive heating brought about the loss of torque we recommend gearing down 1 tooth on the pinion for each notch (5 degree increment).

When turning the timing down, to a more negative number (from N to -1) your motor will produce less no-load RPM and generally experience an increase in torque. To combat a loss of top end speed brought about by the loss of RPM we recommend gearing up 1 tooth on the pinion for each notch (5 degree increment).

Ballistic Timing Questions, Part 2

“How do I set my Ballistic to zero degrees of timing?”

The factory timing for the Ballistic is 30 degrees of timing and corresponds to the N on the timing label on the back of the motor.

We do not recommend running zero degrees of timing for most applications and would recommend running at least 5 degrees of timing to ensure proper operation of the motor.

NOTE: When running your timing lower than the pre-set factory 30 degrees your reversing function of your Novak ESC may not work properly as it accounts for this 30 degrees of timing in its commutation sequence.

To adjust the motor to this lower 5 degree timing setting:

1. Loosen the three 1.5 mm hex head screws on the back timing cap of the motor

2. Turn the end-cap clockwise until the stationary notch on the endbell lines up with the edge of the label as demonstrated in the picture below.

[Photos will appear on web-site when we add this update]

3. Re-tighten the three 1.5 mm hex head screws in a circular pattern to ensure that they are all tightened evenly.
__________________
v-dezign // black diamond

Hoot RC for Local Supplies > www.hootrc.com.au

Last edited by Me_MrTyson; 06-02-2010 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Highlighted the answer to the question.
Me_MrTyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 02:13 AM   #197
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,655
Default

Can someone please tell me the thread size of the holes in the top of the BD for mounting a fan.

I don't want to fit a fan but do want a different way of fixing the power cap in position.

Thanks
Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'17, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2017
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 03:04 AM   #198
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Can someone please tell me the thread size of the holes in the top of the BD for mounting a fan.

I don't want to fit a fan but do want a different way of fixing the power cap in position.

Thanks
Skiddins
I believe it is 2mm.
andrew188 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 04:54 AM   #199
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 399
Default testing again

Out today and tomorrow testing my BD in a 1/12th.1s lipo car.

After speaking to Per AE design team total new set up.

Running car with 1 s lipo, Li-Fe receiver pack and GM 10.5


New set up is profile 3 ,brake 2 and rollout 48mm

Reason for profile 3 is motor has a fixed 30 degrees of advnce built in and profile 3 is 20 degrees giving a total of 50. .Which is near the limit of the controler before cogging occurs.

This is a massive change to what i tried before.Proflie 5 and 62mm rollout .

Having said all this when giving throttle a quick blip on bench it certainely doent sound very powerfull compared to Tekin RS but will see how i get on tonight and report back. Hope its not flea bay for the controler as I really like the concept of it.
tellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2010, 05:01 AM   #200
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 399
Default testing up date

Had a number of runs testing.
1/12th pan car
Set up was as follows

Running car with 1 s lipo, Li-Fe receiver pack and GM 10.5


New set up is profile 3 ,brake 2 and rollout 45mm

First 4 runs was blighted by various problems, cogging ,starting stopping and totaly dead.

1.changed Li-Fe cell
2.Changed sensor lead.
3.Disabled lipo cut off.

Hey presto action, my main suspect was the sensor lead.

1.Run one finally got car running round, infield acceptable straight dog slow and no punch.
2.Run two upped rollout to 48mm not much change
3.Run three profile up to four better infield bit more punch but fast bits dog slow.
4.Run four last of the day upped rollout to 50mm and things improved .But my time was 0.4 of a sec off my best lap with the tekin.

Motor temp after 8 mins was only 39c and Esc was 30c. So where do i go from here. Any suggestions.
tellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 12:54 PM   #201
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_MrTyson View Post
After a little testing this information should help in v2 software, Mike touched on it before in this thread.

Power Profile (blue solid light)

1 - Stock Spec 0 degree timing (v2.1 this included's a flashing light)
2 - 10 degrees Timing
3 - 20 degrees Timing
4 - 30 degrees Timing
5 - 40 degrees Timing

During some recent testing my Novak Ballistic went POP, reason for this is as follows

Novak Motor Timing out of the factory is 30 degrees so you add 40 + 30 and the motor was running 70 degrees of timing..

In the past always run the Novak will just a little bit of extra timing so had about 80 degress of timing on the motor.

The advice given to me was never go above 60 degrees.

There is an easy way to spot this over timing, the motor rev's crazy feels quick but not so smooth anymore.

Heats up very quick (few laps) no matter what gearing you use.
I don't know if I've just been lucky but I've been running a novak ballistic 13.5 with a notch and a half extra timing.

It's lovely and smooth very fast and the hottest I've had it come of is about 74 degrees.

Ade
ade_7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 01:13 PM   #202
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,655
Default

Tried the BD for the first time at the weekend in 10.5 TC.

Using an LRP x12 motor I tried gearing from 5.36 to 7.06, profile 3 & 4 and motor timing from standard (2dot?) to -10deg (4 dot?), no matter what I did the motor came off from 80degC upwards, the worst being 101deg!

With a Tekin it never went above 60degC with gearing around 6.2

Don't get me wrong, the car was fast (Tekin speeds I think) and seemed to be best on profile 4 with lower gearing but the temps were getting scary.

Has anyone else tried in 10.5 TC and what sort of difference in gearing did it take, and on which motor?

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'17, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2017
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #203
Tech Master
 
my t2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,816
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to my t2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Tried the BD for the first time at the weekend in 10.5 TC.

Using an LRP x12 motor I tried gearing from 5.36 to 7.06, profile 3 & 4 and motor timing from standard (2dot?) to -10deg (4 dot?), no matter what I did the motor came off from 80degC upwards, the worst being 101deg!

With a Tekin it never went above 60degC with gearing around 6.2

Don't get me wrong, the car was fast (Tekin speeds I think) and seemed to be best on profile 4 with lower gearing but the temps were getting scary.

Has anyone else tried in 10.5 TC and what sort of difference in gearing did it take, and on which motor?

Skiddins
ive been running bd v2 on profile 5 with a 10.5 duo 1 set on zero timing with gearing around 5.2 on a small high grip indoor track in australia and its a missile ! with a fan on motor it comes off at around 60 degrees c !! i run against tekins , lrp and speedpassion/hobbywing and my car is as fast if not faster then all these ! the rip out of corners is awesome and so smooth makes the car easy to drive !!

grant mount
__________________
has gone into retirement
advanced electronic's speedys ( black diamond )
my t2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 09:20 PM   #204
Tech Master
 
Me_MrTyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,801
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Me_MrTyson Send a message via Skype™ to Me_MrTyson
Default

I also Run the BD v2 with Grant,

Running 17.5 SP v3

Using 10+ timing at a large track ended up with 4.2 FDR - Just keeps winding out.
Using 7+ timing on smaller track use anything from 3.7 - 4.2

temp came off round 150- 158f

Had no problems holding it's own against other makes, being smooth on the power delivery really assist's in your confidence to run full noise sooner than later.

Shall be runnning BD v1 with 10.5t GM motor,

Plan will be

+ 1 notch of timing

profile 4
rollout about 60 - 63

Alex
__________________
v-dezign // black diamond

Hoot RC for Local Supplies > www.hootrc.com.au
Me_MrTyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 05:08 AM   #205
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 678
Trader Rating: 10 (92%+)
Default

where are you guys getting the v2 from?
captain stacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 05:16 AM   #206
Tech Master
 
Me_MrTyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,801
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Me_MrTyson Send a message via Skype™ to Me_MrTyson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain stacker View Post
where are you guys getting the v2 from?
YGPM
__________________
v-dezign // black diamond

Hoot RC for Local Supplies > www.hootrc.com.au
Me_MrTyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 05:51 AM   #207
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,655
Default

Also forgot to mention I had cogging issues off the line.

Whenever I applied full throttle straight away the car would lurch then act like I had stabbed the brakes.
Provided I was a bit more progressive with the throttle the car was fine.

I did try a different sensor wire as well as the variety of gearing.

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'17, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2017
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 05:57 AM   #208
Tech Master
 
Me_MrTyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,801
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Me_MrTyson Send a message via Skype™ to Me_MrTyson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Also forgot to mention I had cogging issues off the line.

Whenever I applied full throttle straight away the car would lurch then act like I had stabbed the brakes.
Provided I was a bit more progressive with the throttle the car was fine.

I did try a different sensor wire as well as the variety of gearing.

Skiddins
Hey Man,

Cannot say I am having the same problems..

Try a few thing..

1. Change to profile 4 (seems this works best on LRP x12)
2. turn down your throttle exp from 100% to - 90% this will smoothen out the throttle responce less liner
3. Re Sync ESC and Tx
__________________
v-dezign // black diamond

Hoot RC for Local Supplies > www.hootrc.com.au
Me_MrTyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 06:36 AM   #209
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 399
Default off line

Strange im also having the same problem, slight lurch off the line, but once moving problem doesnt occur again.

1/12th pan car
tellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 07:16 AM   #210
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 399
Default Cracked it

Solved the lag off the line by just advancing the Throttle profile on tranny to +5.Lag solved.

I run in 1/12th pan car 1s lipo. After 4 test sessions finally found the perfect mix of Motor timing, BD profile and rollout. Car is now amazing to drive.

The perfect motor for this Esc is the Novak Ballastic having tried LRP,Nosram and GM by far the best has been the Novak.

At my local permanant track i had done approx 1200 laps with my tekin RS and my best lap was 12.66 secs.
Since testing the BD it is now 12.17 secs.So the Tekins are history sold both and bought another BD ,now have 2.

If you want any further details please ask or PM me.
tellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:44 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net