3LikesBMI Racing "Copperhead 12" discussion and support
02-20-2011, 07:02 PM
#1621
Just looking at your set-up briefly....it looks a bit too stiff all around. And with the Dbl. Pinks up front coupled with the amount of camber.....is that why you're on the taller standoffs w/the caster shims split? The lubes are a whole 'nother matter; I know nothing to compare those numbers with.
I'm starting to realize that a softer set-up seems to be a better place to start.
I'm starting to realize that a softer set-up seems to be a better place to start.
02-20-2011, 07:16 PM
#1622
Bah... I was afraid you'd say something like that.
I use diff lubes, don't have shurlube, and nobody [that I'm aware of] at my local track uses the stuff, so we all use high weight diff lubes.
Which means I'm having a heck of a time finding what range I should be in on the tubes when everyone on this thread is using shurlube!
Looking at the laptimes from the main yesterday, it seems like my car comes in too early in the run [lap 4] and starts biting too much as you get later in the run, which follows with my impressions [rare inside tire lift if I pinch off a corner].
For the main yesterday I was using:
1.8 plates up front [soft]
tall stands
50k in the tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
1.5 camber
jaco dbl pink tires
caster shims split [one front one rear]
1.2 links in the rear
gold spring
ae 40wt oil
shock short
.5mm sag
3.5mm ride height
1mm pod droop
15k in the tubes
CRC Greylows
sauce was paragon, 1/3 in the fronts, full rears, about 20 minutes on each. Wiped 5 minutes prior and then scrubbed in on the track before the tone.
The car likes to push REAL hard the first 2 laps, then it's on rails and making up time [or at least not losing time] for the next 3-4 minutes, then it seems to scrub a lot of speed in the high speed corners, but carry more speed and make up time in the lower speed quick corners.
I'm open to suggestions.
I use diff lubes, don't have shurlube, and nobody [that I'm aware of] at my local track uses the stuff, so we all use high weight diff lubes.
Which means I'm having a heck of a time finding what range I should be in on the tubes when everyone on this thread is using shurlube!
Looking at the laptimes from the main yesterday, it seems like my car comes in too early in the run [lap 4] and starts biting too much as you get later in the run, which follows with my impressions [rare inside tire lift if I pinch off a corner].
For the main yesterday I was using:
1.8 plates up front [soft]
tall stands
50k in the tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
1.5 camber
jaco dbl pink tires
caster shims split [one front one rear]
1.2 links in the rear
gold spring
ae 40wt oil
shock short
.5mm sag
3.5mm ride height
1mm pod droop
15k in the tubes
CRC Greylows
sauce was paragon, 1/3 in the fronts, full rears, about 20 minutes on each. Wiped 5 minutes prior and then scrubbed in on the track before the tone.
The car likes to push REAL hard the first 2 laps, then it's on rails and making up time [or at least not losing time] for the next 3-4 minutes, then it seems to scrub a lot of speed in the high speed corners, but carry more speed and make up time in the lower speed quick corners.
I'm open to suggestions.
Try going to at least 30k in the rear tubes. I would also reduce camber to 1 degree when doing so. I may have missed it but is this running a 13.5 or 17.5? If 17.5 try going to 40-50k in the tubes. and switch to black fronts.
02-20-2011, 07:19 PM
#1623
The taller standoffs helped calm the front down, so it doesn't carve in quite so aggressively or feel as edgy, the camber was to gain a slight bit more high speed steering, and splitting the caster shims was to take away a tiny bit of exit steering, while giving a bit more entry steering in the slower corners.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
02-20-2011, 07:22 PM
#1624
I'll pick up some black fronts and give it a shot.
02-20-2011, 07:35 PM
#1625
It sounds like the car is pushing to the point that it slowly gums up the fronts. If you lower the front standoffs, stiffen the side dampening and change to the blacks, that should give you more initial and overall steering and eliminate the push. I would go back to maximum caster and reduce static camber as you will have increased camber gain from the added caster. The black fronts dont gum up as easy as a natural rubber tire and will be a little more free. The heavy dampening will drive the front in nice and hard and help keep the car more level at the same time. 17.5 is a tricky class. Its all about corner speed and keeping the car flat in the rear. Let me know how it goes.
02-20-2011, 10:37 PM
#1626
Hey Jason quick question.....will you expound a bit on front and rear track width. My car felt really stable and along with my current set-up, my front to rear track width is 169.20mm on the front & 172mm on the rear. Contributing factor...maybe?? Just trying to start gathering information.
02-21-2011, 01:46 AM
#1627
Hello guys,
I am going to attend European championship next week. I would like you to suggest a tested basic setup that works you well.
Just want to see what setup works for other racers.
Track layout:
I am going to attend European championship next week. I would like you to suggest a tested basic setup that works you well.
Just want to see what setup works for other racers.
Track layout:
02-21-2011, 02:10 AM
#1628
Well we had our test day today using sugar water on the local track and it went really well. Everyone enjoyed the increased tracktion and the 1/12ths that tested there had tons of grip. My setup still needs some work but even with an off-setup the car ran very well. So it looks like this is probably going to be a regular class on race days!
02-21-2011, 03:17 AM
#1629
Hey Jason quick question.....will you expound a bit on front and rear track width. My car felt really stable and along with my current set-up, my front to rear track width is 169.20mm on the front & 172mm on the rear. Contributing factor...maybe?? Just trying to start gathering information.
02-21-2011, 04:46 AM
#1631
10.5 Stock (with timing advance) 
02-21-2011, 05:37 AM
#1632
Here is where i would start
Front: (w/ new front end)
1.8mm flex plates in soft mount position
30k in center tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
Magenta front tires cut to 1.620 sauce 1/2 inside front
1 degree camber
max caster
Glue front tires
Rear:
40k in tubes
1.2mm carbon flex plates
45 wt. oil in shock w/ gold center spring
Tall ball stud on shock mount
.5mm sag in pod w/ 1mm pod droop(front of pod .5mm lower than rear of pod at ride height)
Magenta rears glued at wheel/foam edge cut to 1.670 full sauce
That should do it buddy. Its the setup i run for 13.5 boosted and it is real easy to drive and fast.
Front: (w/ new front end)
1.8mm flex plates in soft mount position
30k in center tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
Magenta front tires cut to 1.620 sauce 1/2 inside front
1 degree camber
max caster
Glue front tires
Rear:
40k in tubes
1.2mm carbon flex plates
45 wt. oil in shock w/ gold center spring
Tall ball stud on shock mount
.5mm sag in pod w/ 1mm pod droop(front of pod .5mm lower than rear of pod at ride height)
Magenta rears glued at wheel/foam edge cut to 1.670 full sauce
That should do it buddy. Its the setup i run for 13.5 boosted and it is real easy to drive and fast.
02-21-2011, 07:29 AM
#1635
Thanks Jason Will try out this setup on my home track this weekend.
Will try out this setup on my home track this weekend.