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Old 11-28-2010, 07:05 AM   #1336
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whats wrong with the flex plates
The first week I ran them, they were fine but on the second week, one side began to delaminate causing the car to handle differently when turning left and right. Also, the set screw for ride height needed to be tightened much more to keep the front end even side to side, which also aided in the turning instability.

The concept for the front end is awesome but, IMO the flex plates need to be replaced with another material. Carbon fiber delaminates and because each side is independent, you can not guarantee how each side will wear and handle over an extended amount of time. If I had the money, time and patience, I would probably just change the set out every week but, I don't and even then a hard wall hit could cause the same problem.

This is in no way a bash on Jason or BMI, I love his stuff and his forward thinking. With everything new, there will be bumps and hiccups and eventually change will come but, I need something that will work week in and week out for this points series now.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:07 AM   #1337
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Unless you have a very special piece of glass that's been through a surface grinder to make it perfectly flat, I would not trust it.

Nothing wrong w/my front flex plates. Every time I drive my CH12 it gets better as I learn more about tuning it.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:12 AM   #1338
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Jason -

No reason to be discouraged man. As I've learned the tuning adjustments on your car, I'm ending up with the most driveable/adjustable 1/12th piece I've owned. I've been at this more than a dozen years. Strong work man! Keep doing what you do!

You've been around long enough to know - people that repeatedly run into stuff tend to be the ones that complain about their cars. Instead, they need to make an adjustment to the nut behind the wheel.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:19 AM   #1339
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Sorry Jamison, I retired the CH12 until something is done about the front end flex plates. I ran the CEFX Griffin 12 (first time) yesterday and it ran great.

Jason, I wouldn't take anything people are saying on here as complaints. I don't know of any end-users who want to see you fail and nobody wants to buy your car only to have something on the car fail. Try to look at what people are saying as feedback or opportunities to make something better. It's your very own global research and development team.
I have had no problems with the flex plates. Every spring will fatigue. People need to change there front springs constantly on ALL of the current front ends. They collapse and become unequal lengths. There is only so much you can do as far as durability of a spring. I test everything before it is released and when i feel it outlasts the current stuff on the market, i feel it is ready for release. I have been using the same 2 sets of flex plates for about 30 runs each and they are still fine. I have had 1 set fail but it was my fault. If staying with the strut front end makes people feel more safe, they are more than welcome to do so. That is what the car comes standard with. The new front end is a OPTIONAL part that people have chosen to go with. I have had a ton of great results from end users. Most are very pleased. Its the people who try it just to find possible problems that get under my skin. Everyone is entitled to do so but it gets a little frustrating when they complain about things that have been age old problems that are improved with my front end over the old ones yet it somehow becomes a problem with my front end only.(ex. front springs). Look at my WGT car for instance. I placed the electronics behind the battery. Team drivers from other companies go explaining to my customers how you cant do that and how things need to be like there car. Even the owner of that company said the same. Now they release a car that has the same layout and it is widely excepted by all. Just because i dont go to all the big races and buy my way to the podium doesnt mean the product doesnt work. I hate to throw anyone under the bus but im at the end of my rope. I test all of the product and it all works flawlessly. I dont compare to other companies to boost my product. I learn from theres and my own mistakes and make the best, most precise products. There is nothing more precise on the market. If i had the wide tollerances everyone else does, my car would not work. I have to put 110% into every car and everything needs to be perfect. My costs are very high because of this but profit is not my goal. Extreme precision is. I wanted to offer the most advanced car on the market and i accomplished that. I understand that it can not be appreciated by all but it would be nice if some people could see the differences.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:24 AM   #1340
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Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX View Post
The first week I ran them, they were fine but on the second week, one side began to delaminate causing the car to handle differently when turning left and right. Also, the set screw for ride height needed to be tightened much more to keep the front end even side to side, which also aided in the turning instability.

The concept for the front end is awesome but, IMO the flex plates need to be replaced with another material. Carbon fiber delaminates and because each side is independent, you can not guarantee how each side will wear and handle over an extended amount of time. If I had the money, time and patience, I would probably just change the set out every week but, I don't and even then a hard wall hit could cause the same problem.

This is in no way a bash on Jason or BMI, I love his stuff and his forward thinking. With everything new, there will be bumps and hiccups and eventually change will come but, I need something that will work week in and week out for this points series now.

Coil springs collapse after 1 tap on the wall. You can replace them or shim one side to compensate. Still the same problem. If you have to preload one side more than the other, the car is out of balance. I'm not saying that the balance has to be perfect but it does need to be close. I'm not bending anyone's arm behind there back to run my products. I want them to enjoy it. I have not had any such issues and as i said, i have about 30 runs on both my 1.5 and 1.8 flex plates and they are still fine. The car runs flawlessly week in and week out.
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:03 AM   #1341
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Coil springs collapse after 1 tap on the wall. You can replace them or shim one side to compensate. Still the same problem. If you have to preload one side more than the other, the car is out of balance. I'm not saying that the balance has to be perfect but it does need to be close. I'm not bending anyone's arm behind there back to run my products. I want them to enjoy it. I have not had any such issues and as i said, i have about 30 runs on both my 1.5 and 1.8 flex plates and they are still fine. The car runs flawlessly week in and week out.
Nobody bent my arm to spend $300+, coil springs do collapse, you've had no issues, maybe my flex plates were just $hit. All may be true but, my flex plates did delaminate without hitting anything and it made the car very unpredictable. Also, I'm not the only one at my track who has had the problem with delaminating flex plates.
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:37 AM   #1342
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Nobody bent my arm to spend $300+, coil springs do collapse, you've had no issues, maybe my flex plates were just $hit. All may be true but, my flex plates did delaminate without hitting anything and it made the car very unpredictable. Also, I'm not the only one at my track who has had the problem with delaminating flex plates.
Hi, I have not seen everything regarding this post so excuse me if this has been asked... Do you guys prep the flex plates? Every Carbon fibre or fibre glass part needs to be preped., no matter what brand or application. If this is not done you may have delaminating occur... When I first started racing I had this problem and lost a chassis to this problem, after which I fixed the problem and never had this happen again. I been running the same flex plates for a long time, probably longer then I should, but still no delaminating...
Good Luck

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Old 11-28-2010, 08:46 AM   #1343
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Hi, I have not seen everything regarding this post so excuse me if this has been asked... Do you guys prep the flex plates? Every Carbon fibre or fibre glass part needs to be preped., no matter what brand or application. If this is not done you may have delaminating occur... When I first started racing I had this problem and lost a chassis to this problem, after which I fixed the problem and never had this happen again. I been running the same flex plates for a long time, probably longer then I should, but still no delaminating...
Good Luck

Appreciate the comment. Yes, I prepped the carbon fiber as I've prepped all my carbon fiber parts since carbon fiber first was used in RC. It may have been a "bad spot" in the carbon fiber itself but, carbon fiber is prone to delaminating in general.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:10 AM   #1344
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Sounds like a case of user error, like janking around the set screw as you're first screwing it in. If the plate were at fault it would have been exposed during machining.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:23 AM   #1345
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Originally Posted by 20 SMOKE View Post
whats wrong with the flex plates
+1 ......nevermind
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:49 AM   #1346
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Is anyone here running the DB12RR w/the NFE ? I'm also running my car on a Indoor CRC-ozite/Paragon track but its in 30-40* temperatures. Been strugglin' for a couple of months now & its quite disheartening.

On another note....
Jason has been a great buddy of mine since the DB12 and a source of encouragement. And to be able to just call up the owner and talk shop.....you can't put a pricetag on that. Can you put a price on loyalty? Maybe. All I know is that Jason is loyal to 2 things- CUSTOMER SERVICE and QUALITY. The title of 'LUXURY' car kits belong to BMI.....and......SERPENT
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #1347
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Since we started with the DB12, we have gone with a different design. We wanted to get away from the T bars and chumpy side springs that pop out or lose adjustment after a light crash. We have been perfecting this since we began. The link cars and T bar cars have been around for ages and have established setups. If you remember, the link cars were absolute junk until they found what made them work. T bar cars were king. It took around 10 years to get them good. We have managed to compete with them from day 1. Our 1st prototype of the DB12R was tested at the snowbirds before it was even released and made the A main. Every car we have put out has been right up there with all of the cars on the market with minimal time on them. This is also without owning the typical top 10 at every event. Now when you look at all of the new latest and greatest, they are all carbon copies of eachother. It seems no one wants to think outside the box. We are the only ones. This is why you will have the typical sheepish team guys pushing other products every time they are approached with something new. They dont want to take the chance of losing a race to figure out something new that has all the potential to crush there tried and true, 20 year old technology pan car. This is one of the many reasons that these cars have stayed the same for so long. I have always found it amusing but it now is actually kind of pathetic. So therefor, i am going to have to stay on my path of innovation or i will just call it quits all together. I refuse to follow the path of the current crop of cars. I want to believe that we are not still in the 80's and 90's when i go racing.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:50 PM   #1348
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You can't call it quits now, I haven't gotten my Copperhead 12 OR Copperhead 10 yet
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:15 PM   #1349
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Jason,

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Old 11-28-2010, 05:51 PM   #1350
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Jason is the part number for the CH12 damper tube/body mount brace CH1041? Mine got smashed by a touring car at Minnreg this weekend.
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