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Old 11-06-2010, 12:32 PM   #1201
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
But also keep in mind on Josh's own aftermarket chassis for the Photon he made the motor mount steel for a reason. I don't think the aluminum is going to be strong enough.
The CEFX Griffin 12 uses the same motor mounting design and the pod plates are aluminum. The car has been out for a while now and I've heard no reports of problems with the plates
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:39 PM   #1202
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Don't change a winning concept IMHO...
You can't possibly mean this.

If Jason hadn't decided to change a winning concept, the current car wouldn't exist.

In fact, we'd still be running around with something completely basic in all forms of RC. Everything evolves.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:46 PM   #1203
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That rear axle is probably going to tweak. THe plastic holders will break and if you change to aluminum holders, the load will be transferred to the pods and they will bend as they look very weak. I dont feel they came up with a very solid design. It also looks like the tube around the axle is what keeps the pods from collapsing. If thats the case, thery need to either rely on the plastic carriers or the inner race of the bearing for strength. Very weak on both parts. I think you will find them changing that very quickly. Another thing to take into consideration is all the pics are shown with small tires. If you run asphalt and run your tires at 1.900 or uncut, you will need to add a ton of shim and a very long screw to allow for this. I dont like to feel like the negative one, I just dont feel that this car was very well thought out. Minimal gear mesh adjustment, Motor will bend the pod in an impact from that style of mounting, ride hight adjustment is minimal without weakening the assembly, front end isnt anything new but should work, i can go on but dont want to get in too deep. Im sure everyone will find out in time how well the car fairs in the hands of normal guys. Hell, even the pros are going to have a rough time with alot of the issues. So in a nutshell, i will be going a different route. I am always looking to improve and i am always listening to what you guys would like to see. In normal BMI Fashion, we will get 1/12th into a new league. I know our car isnt cheap like the rest and i cant compete with those prices because of the higher quality parts and upgrades put in our kit. This is why you dont see ferrari in a price war with toyota. We are the Ferrari of 1/12th.
Sounds a lot like some of the talk when others got a load of your new front end.

I wasn't saying that you should take rear end of the Top car and anodize it copper. I was only saying that this rear end with the current crappy ride height spacers is ready to be replaced.

I know you're always looking for ways to improve things, I'm just saying I'm ready for the improvement when you're ready to do it.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:52 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
But also keep in mind on Josh's own aftermarket chassis for the Photon he made the motor mount steel for a reason. I don't think the aluminum is going to be strong enough.
i haven't seen a photon in person, but i understood the car was underweight and he was trying to minimize the footprint of the builheads etc in contact with the chassis.

this was meant to minimize the chassis stiffening, i guess chassis flex is all the rage in TC these days.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:15 PM   #1205
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Had a bit of a tough time today.

My car was comfortably quick and controllable early, but the front grip continually overpowered the rear grip to the point that I just couldn't put any power down without the wheels perfectly straight, or the car would loop.

Talking with a fellow BMI pilot/experienced 12th guy, I have a pretty good idea what my experimentation direction needs to go. I'm pretty sure my front flex plates ["springs" on this new BMI front end] are just way too soft. No matter what I did, the car would just load the outside front tire, both directions, to the point that the front tires had no choice but to gum up and swing the rear for a ride.

Stiffer front flex plates are on the way, and I'm thinking of picking up some black front tires to try as well.

I started off running CRC Magenta fronts, and switched to Purples for the second qualifier. The purple fronts seemed to give me an extra minute before they got too sticky, but once they did, it was a lot more abrupt.

Rear tires were CRC Pinks all day. Only other rear tires I currently have are Yellows.

I also went from 20k side tube lube to 30k, and that helped lock in the rear a little better, but only helped keep good balance for another 2-3 laps. If I hadn't sabotaged myself for the 3rd qualifier, I may have tried even higher in the side tubes.

Nothing I could do today would make the car push in any condition other than full throttle corner entry. Once the front took a set, rotation was coming.

Anything else I'm overlooking to get more rear bite and a little less front tire loading?

Rundown on my current setup:
3.5mm ride height, front and rear
Front droop between 1mm and 0 [tried removing droop to take away some steering]
1.5 front flex plates
1.5 camber
6 caster
Stock standoffs [do have the taller standoffs available though]
50k in front tube

1.5mm side links
30k side tubes
30w oil/gold spring
1.5mm pod droop
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:52 PM   #1206
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To the best of my knowledge, no one at our track has ever been able to hook up Pink rears, even when the bite is up. At it's best, though, our track is a medium grip surface. I would recommend you try the Gralows from CRC or the Oranges from Jaco/Parma. My car behaves exactly the way you describe when I try Pinks, but switching to Oranges takes it right out. If Oranges seem a bit much, try a Gray to loosen it up just a bit. You may still need to alter your st up a bit, but I think these will put you closer.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:50 AM   #1207
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Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
Had a bit of a tough time today.

..............I also went from 20k side tube lube to 30k, and that helped lock in the rear a little better, but only helped keep good balance for another 2-3 laps. If I hadn't sabotaged myself for the 3rd qualifier, I may have tried even higher in the side tubes.

Nothing I could do today would make the car push in any condition other than full throttle corner entry. Once the front took a set, rotation was coming.

Anything else I'm overlooking to get more rear bite and a little less front tire loading?

Rundown on my current setup:
3.5mm ride height, front and rear
Front droop between 1mm and 0 [tried removing droop to take away some steering]
1.5 front flex plates
1.5 camber
6 caster
Stock standoffs [do have the taller standoffs available though]
50k in front tube

1.5mm side links
30k side tubes
30w oil/gold spring
1.5mm pod droop

Would taking a little pod droop out help limit the weight transfer to the front? My CH10 responds dramatically to this.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:23 AM   #1208
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harry,what was the pod height.is the track bumpy.what esc
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:23 AM   #1209
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Here's a list of parts I have compiled that one should have to maintain their Copperhead 12:

CH1041 - Copperhead 12 Chassis Brace
CH1071 - 7075 2MM FRONT AXLE SPACERS
CH1070 - FRONT STANDOFF SET (2mm extended)
CH2001 - 1.8 MM FRONT FLEX PLATES PAIR
CH2002 - 1.5 MM FRONT FLEX PLATES PAIR
CH2010 - COPPERHEAD NEW LOWER FRONT ARMS
CH2060 - STEERING BLOCK WITH HELICOIL
CH3017 - Copperhead 1.2 Carbon Fiber Flex Links
CH3018 - Copperhead 1.5 Carbon Fiber Flex Links
CH3019 - Copperhead Fiberglass Flex Links
CH3025 - FRONT UPPER EYELETS WITH PIVOT BALL
CH3029 - SINGLE MOUNT PIVOT BALL HOUSING WITH PIVOT BALL PAIR
DB1080 - Body Mounts
DB1081 - Body Mount Pivot
DB1093 - ball cups
DB3020 - Center Pivot Ball Housing and Ball, Delrin/Alloy
DB3029 - Flex Plate Pivot Ball Housings Complete
DB3055 - Center Shock Spring, Blue 10lb.
DB3056 - Center Shock Spring, Gold 12lb.
DB3057 - Center Shock Spring, Red 14lb.
DB4050 - Rear Axle Shim, Alloy 3mm
DB5305 - Carbon Servo Saver Brace
DB5401 - Bumper, DB12R, High Density Foam
DB6495 - Standard Nickel Teflon Ball Studs
The two most important parts to order here guys, may be the CH3017 & CH3018 - 1.2mm & 1.5mm Carbon Fiber Flex Plates.

I have been running the conversion kit CH12 for a few weeks and just figured out that the kit sidelinks are the 1.5mm black fiberglass parts, DUH? If you are trying to follow the setups Jason is working on, you will need to get the carbon-fiber parts! As our track layout came up to "high" traction, my car slowed down and felt too "locked down" on the track. These optional parts will help free it up and get back the corner speed it had when the carpet was at a "medium" traction level. Any of you having traction roll issues may have inadvertently come across this same setup issue and not realized it yet?
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:39 AM   #1210
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Harry - Just saw your jpost above. Before you change your front-end much, you may want to try a couple changes to the rear. It looks like you and I both have run across a similar handling issue. Going to the Jaco Orange or the BSR white/gray would be a good tire adjustment as already recommended. From there, I think trying the 1.2mm carbonfiber sidelinks might be a good step? Anyone else following the same type of handling issues?
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:48 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by odpurple View Post
The CEFX Griffin 12 uses the same motor mounting design and the pod plates are aluminum. The car has been out for a while now and I've heard no reports of problems with the plates
Cool...did not know that.
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:34 PM   #1212
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Here is some video of some laps on my local track in Denmark


youtube.com/watch?v=GBgTmZRzweE


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Old 11-07-2010, 02:45 PM   #1213
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Originally Posted by LonnyJ1950 View Post
To the best of my knowledge, no one at our track has ever been able to hook up Pink rears, even when the bite is up. At it's best, though, our track is a medium grip surface. I would recommend you try the Gralows from CRC or the Oranges from Jaco/Parma. My car behaves exactly the way you describe when I try Pinks, but switching to Oranges takes it right out. If Oranges seem a bit much, try a Gray to loosen it up just a bit. You may still need to alter your st up a bit, but I think these will put you closer.
I don't doubt that a tire change may fix my problem, but just about everyone I talked to Saturday was running Pink rears, and not having the issues I was.

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Originally Posted by sportpak View Post
Would taking a little pod droop out help limit the weight transfer to the front? My CH10 responds dramatically to this.
Dunno, that's why I'm asking, lol.
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harry,what was the pod height.is the track bumpy.what esc
Pod height was 3.5mm, there's a couple bumps on the track, nothing major. Tekin RS, mild profile, 10.5
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Harry - Just saw your jpost above. Before you change your front-end much, you may want to try a couple changes to the rear. It looks like you and I both have run across a similar handling issue. Going to the Jaco Orange or the BSR white/gray would be a good tire adjustment as already recommended. From there, I think trying the 1.2mm carbonfiber sidelinks might be a good step? Anyone else following the same type of handling issues?
I tried the 1.2mm cf side links before, but I cracked one and they weren't showing up on the webstore when I made my order last night.

Grip is still pretty low on the track as well.

I can deal with the car if it goes a *little* loose toward the end of a run, but right now it feels like the front scrubs enough to put the brakes on, and the rear didn't get the memo.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:14 PM   #1214
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2 things you can try is raise the chassis to 3.8-4 and leave the pod at 3.5 so you can get some anti squat,the other is i had a semi mild esc setup and the timing came in to fast it spun me out at every corner

do you have the fiberglass links,short or long position
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:42 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by 20 SMOKE View Post
2 things you can try is raise the chassis to 3.8-4 and leave the pod at 3.5 so you can get some anti squat,the other is i had a semi mild esc setup and the timing came in to fast it spun me out at every corner

do you have the fiberglass links,short or long position
I do have the fiberglas links, right now the 1.5cf links are installed in the long position. The front 1.5 links are in the stiff position.

If my parts show up early enough in the week, I'm going to borrow a set of black front tires and so some more testing, hopefully before the next race Saturday. I'll try your suggestion then.

On my ESC setup, it didn't matter if I babied the throttle, the car wanted to find a way to spin out after the 4:30 mark. I'm running only about 35 boost, RPM range from 1500 to 8000, no turbo, rollout around 65mm.

The car is really good [if I do my part] for the first 3 minutes or so. Then it starts getting loose, and pretty much undriveable by the 5 minute call.
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