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Old 09-26-2010, 03:12 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
Did you set your left and right hand circles on the track? Make sure that you are turning around a 4 ft. circle in each direction. This is very critical as it can be a perfectly good set up but run very bad. I would also go to #4 shur lube in the rear tubes. I found a new setup today for high bite that you can try. The car was SUPER easy to drive and very fast. The biggest change i made was shimming under the hinge pin block in the front. THis will mellow the car out. Try putting 1mm of shim under the front hinge pin block for starters. If it is still too aggressive, add 1mm under the pivot balls also on the arms. Here is the new setup that worked best for me in high bite.

Front:
3mm ride height
.25mm droop
1.8mm flex plate soft postion(longest postion)
1 degree camber
6 degrees caster
2mm shim behind each axle
1.5mm shim under the hinge pin block( i needed to trim 2 4-40x 5/8 screw slightly to allow it to fully clamp the hinge pin block)
No shims under the pivot balls on the arms
BSR team purple cut to 1.620 w/ glued sidewalls
1/4 inside with sauce

Rear:
red center spring w/ 45 wt. oil
1mm pod droop
1.2mm c/f flex plates mounted long position(soft)
3mm ride height
#4 shurlube in tubes
Gray/White tires cut to 1.670 w/ glued sidewalls
Full sauce on the tire

Parma HD speed 8

The car was really easy to drive. Smooth and very fast. I ran with top level drivers today and did the best i ever had against them. I was very happy with the car. Honestly the best 1/12th car i have ever driven. I have driven them all and this really blew me away. Tire wear was minimal. .010 after 4 8 minute runs. The front and rears wore at the same rate. The car was very efficient and carried a ton of speed through the corners.
Sweet Jason...that's awesome. The car was THAT good huh? Our traction up here is hardly ever low, mostly mid to mid-high bite...gotta keep this set up handy I need to buck up and get a CH12 though, lol.
What was your outcome in the race at the end of the day?
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:17 PM   #887
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I would like to know what your front tires felt like? Were they gummy? I would try Jaco Blacks on the front AND try the flexplates in the "short" position. My car handled similarly until I reduced the 'roll' (side to side movement)of the car and went to a more foam-based front tire. The other thing I did, although it sounds small, was change the camber from 1-degree to about .25 degrees. Made a huge difference with initial corner entry.
JayBee...Thank you very much for the input. The fronts did not get gummy at all. I've found that Lilacs have worked well in the past on this track with the Niftech compound although some use Blacks as well. I would have tried Blacks last night except I didn't have any with me . I suspect that would help. Admittedly I'm fairly new to 1/12th setup but wouldn't stiffening the rear flex plates generate more rotation and therefore exaggerate the problem of snap oversteer?

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That is odd Mike...with the soft rear flex plates in the long position and the blue spring that should really generate a lot of rear traction. Was it like that from the start or did it run good for a lap or 2 then go bad after a crash? Are any of your rear pivots binding?
That's exactly what I thought when I set in up this way...I knew our track only had Med grip and was trying to generate more rear grip through the softer spring/flex plates. It behaved as I described more or less from the start and I don't believe any of the pivot balls are binding, although I'll check again tonight...thanks for the input!

I think one of the real telling things is the significant rear tire wear...I've never worn the rears that much before and I had almost NO front tire wear at the same time. I'm thinking that the new front end generates so much turn-in that the rears are working way too hard to keep up, so to speak. Does that sound plausible to everyone?

Thanks again for the input...I really appreciate it!

Cheers,
Mike
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Last edited by Hyper_Mike; 09-26-2010 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:37 PM   #888
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My car still had a ton of rear grip at the IIC and I was running gold spring with the stock flex plates in the short position and had gone to 20k oil up front with 10k in the back. To me it sounds like there is something wrong somewhere.

Also when you tighten up the front screw on the flex plates...are you turning the nut or holding the nut and turning the screw? I found on the older chassis if I allowed the threaded stand off to turn when tightening the screw that would cause tweak. My guess is the same thing could happen if you turn the nut so I made sure to hold the nut tightly in place while I turned the screw.
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:38 PM   #889
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Mike, that's my thinking as well but that's the reason for the changes in camber along with the black tires up front. But I also agree with Jason with #4 Shurlube in the tubes. It just seems to me your car is a touch too soft.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:11 PM   #890
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Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
... Here is the new setup that worked best for me in high bite.
...
Front:
1.8mm flex plate soft postion(longest postion)
..
No shims under the pivot balls on the arms

Rear:
red center spring w/ 45 wt. oil

Parma HD speed 8
hi Jason,
just couple questions specific to your latest setup:
is the 1.8 front plate a new part? i don't see it on the website.
no shim under the arms, means the inner pivot of the lower arm?
is this 45wt oil with the stock silva piston?
parma HD has less steering than AMR have you tried the AMR? does this mean you more than enough steering with the HD body style?


and a general question on weight transfer related to 'HyperMike's situation:
compared to a blue spring (maybe with too much droop), could the red spring lessen the forward weight shift so the off power steering is more controllable? when i have had trouble with the car hooking into corners it has been due to too much droop, but maybe a stiffer spring would help?
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:29 PM   #891
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Usually if your center spring is too soft. The car will feel slugish through the corners.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:29 PM   #892
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1.8mm front plates are available. I may have forgotten to put them on the site. I will do that when i go to work tomorrow.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:34 PM   #893
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Sweet Jason...that's awesome. The car was THAT good huh? Our traction up here is hardly ever low, mostly mid to mid-high bite...gotta keep this set up handy I need to buck up and get a CH12 though, lol.
What was your outcome in the race at the end of the day?
I didnt get to run the main. I had to leave. We ran 5 quals though. We had extremely stiff comp as Mike Bruce, Jeff Brown, TJ Bradley, Steve Mcnichols(just won the snowbirds) and more. There were 2 full heats of 1/12th and i qualified 5th or 4th in the A.(i forgot) I was only about .2-.3 off of the really fast guys for fast lap and averaged very close to the same lap times throughout the race. My nerves get to me but the car was great. ANY of those guys would have made the car look even better I was surprised to be hanging with them.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:35 PM   #894
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hi Jason,
just couple questions specific to your latest setup:
is the 1.8 front plate a new part? i don't see it on the website.
no shim under the arms, means the inner pivot of the lower arm?
is this 45wt oil with the stock silva piston?
parma HD has less steering than AMR have you tried the AMR? does this mean you more than enough steering with the HD body style?


and a general question on weight transfer related to 'HyperMike's situation:
compared to a blue spring (maybe with too much droop), could the red spring lessen the forward weight shift so the off power steering is more controllable? when i have had trouble with the car hooking into corners it has been due to too much droop, but maybe a stiffer spring would help?
I'm not Jason but that's another possiblility(dealing w/weight transfer) and yes, a stiffer spring and lesser droop could help. But when I look at these two adjustments, I find it necessary to weigh the grip available and the bumpiness of the track as well.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:36 PM   #895
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Mike,

Give me a buzz at the shop tomorrow and we will go over your setup buddy
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:43 PM   #896
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Mike,

Give me a buzz at the shop tomorrow and we will go over your setup buddy
Will do Jason...thanks very much!

Cheers,
Mike
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:32 AM   #897
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Hi Jason,

I see you've been busy, but is there any word on when you'll have the new front end available for my 12r5?
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:04 AM   #898
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Just waiting on the C/F. The new front end on the WGT performed flawlessy this weekend with a dominating victory.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:05 AM   #899
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be ready by the weekend
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:10 AM   #900
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You running 1/12th or WGT?
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