3LikesBMI Racing "Copperhead 12" discussion and support
02-21-2011, 03:06 PM
#1637
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
February Freeze Race hosted by Mike's Hobby Shop
The BMI worked great all weekend. Qualified 6th in the A-main. After a viscious 3 car battle for third place the entire 8 minutes I was relegated to
5th place. It was the most fun/heart pounding rc race I have experienced. Final result; 3rd through 5th was seperated by less the 3 seconds.
Best of all once I settled on a set up the car needed nothing but fresh batteries and tires!
Great product Jason!
5th place. It was the most fun/heart pounding rc race I have experienced. Final result; 3rd through 5th was seperated by less the 3 seconds.
Best of all once I settled on a set up the car needed nothing but fresh batteries and tires!
Great product Jason!
02-21-2011, 06:53 PM
#1638
Hello everyone i would just like to let you know i am now a member of the BMI racing team and will be supporting the copperhead series of cars. and am looking forward to recieving the cars and once i get them up and running i will be able help anyone on here with any questions about the cars or any set-up help on the threads or via PM.
really looking forward to working with everyone and Jason thanks again for the opportunity!
Jeff
really looking forward to working with everyone and Jason thanks again for the opportunity!
Jeff
02-22-2011, 05:43 AM
#1639
The BMI worked great all weekend. Qualified 6th in the A-main. After a viscious 3 car battle for third place the entire 8 minutes I was relegated to
5th place. It was the most fun/heart pounding rc race I have experienced. Final result; 3rd through 5th was seperated by less the 3 seconds.
Best of all once I settled on a set up the car needed nothing but fresh batteries and tires!
Great product Jason!
5th place. It was the most fun/heart pounding rc race I have experienced. Final result; 3rd through 5th was seperated by less the 3 seconds.
Best of all once I settled on a set up the car needed nothing but fresh batteries and tires!
Great product Jason!
02-22-2011, 05:43 AM
#1640
Hello everyone i would just like to let you know i am now a member of the BMI racing team and will be supporting the copperhead series of cars. and am looking forward to recieving the cars and once i get them up and running i will be able help anyone on here with any questions about the cars or any set-up help on the threads or via PM.
really looking forward to working with everyone and Jason thanks again for the opportunity!
Jeff
really looking forward to working with everyone and Jason thanks again for the opportunity!
Jeff
02-23-2011, 06:17 AM
#1643
Tech Adept
The taller standoffs helped calm the front down, so it doesn't carve in quite so aggressively or feel as edgy, the camber was to gain a slight bit more high speed steering, and splitting the caster shims was to take away a tiny bit of exit steering, while giving a bit more entry steering in the slower corners.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
Something you might bounce off Jason as a place to experiment with? I tried moving the shock mount one hole forward from the "back" position. This was based on some setup advice from Greg "Showtime" Dobrosky off of the 12RR car. For my feel with the CH12, it really suits my driving lines, maybe not for everybody? Seems to have a better "rotation" in the middle corner, maintains corner speed a little better for me. I was having my CH12 "rotate" a bit to quickly and that was scrubbing speed and overheating the fronts. I was chasing a loose condition at the end of the run with front tires that got a little grabby.
Just a thought. Maybe Jason can add to the pluse/minus of making this adjustment?
Aaron
02-23-2011, 06:23 AM
#1644
I appreciate the input.
I found a bent motor bulkhead on the car last night, don't have time to get a replacement up before racing Saturday, so I'll try to straighten it a bit and get everything back together and see what I can come up with for Saturday.
Speaking of which, what's the part number for the motor bulkhead, and is it available with the copper anodizing?
I found a bent motor bulkhead on the car last night, don't have time to get a replacement up before racing Saturday, so I'll try to straighten it a bit and get everything back together and see what I can come up with for Saturday.
Speaking of which, what's the part number for the motor bulkhead, and is it available with the copper anodizing?
02-23-2011, 06:43 AM
#1645
I appreciate the input.
I found a bent motor bulkhead on the car last night, don't have time to get a replacement up before racing Saturday, so I'll try to straighten it a bit and get everything back together and see what I can come up with for Saturday.
Speaking of which, what's the part number for the motor bulkhead, and is it available with the copper anodizing?
I found a bent motor bulkhead on the car last night, don't have time to get a replacement up before racing Saturday, so I'll try to straighten it a bit and get everything back together and see what I can come up with for Saturday.
Speaking of which, what's the part number for the motor bulkhead, and is it available with the copper anodizing?
i dont think jason has said this but if you want that extra copper they have pinions in copper as well
right side CH 1051
left side CH 1052 the pic is the old color but it says copperhead
02-23-2011, 06:58 AM
#1646
Thanks, yeah, the old picture was throwing me off a bit.
02-23-2011, 11:39 AM
#1648
By raising the front of the shock, the car will rotate more in the center of the corner and have a little more on power steering.
Also, I went to the Grand Slam race in Indy last weekend. My copperhead was OK most of the weekend. It's been about 2 years since I've been on a Paragon track so I was chaising the setup some all weekend. The fourth round I had the car in the main for most of the race but a last lap tangle slowed me down. I ended up qualifying 1st in the B, missed the A by less than a tenth. I made a couple changes for the main and the car was really really good. I ended up lapping everybody but 2nd and had 1/2 a lap on him. My run in the main would have qualified me 4th in the A. I havn't been able to run much this winter so I was just happy to get the car to where it needed to be, if only it would have been 1 run sooner, but I guess thats how it goes sometimes. Overall it was a good weekend and I learned alot about the car.
Also, I went to the Grand Slam race in Indy last weekend. My copperhead was OK most of the weekend. It's been about 2 years since I've been on a Paragon track so I was chaising the setup some all weekend. The fourth round I had the car in the main for most of the race but a last lap tangle slowed me down. I ended up qualifying 1st in the B, missed the A by less than a tenth. I made a couple changes for the main and the car was really really good. I ended up lapping everybody but 2nd and had 1/2 a lap on him. My run in the main would have qualified me 4th in the A. I havn't been able to run much this winter so I was just happy to get the car to where it needed to be, if only it would have been 1 run sooner, but I guess thats how it goes sometimes. Overall it was a good weekend and I learned alot about the car.
Last edited by -showtime-; 02-23-2011 at 02:22 PM.
02-24-2011, 12:21 PM
#1650
Sorry for the volume of quotes, just trying to save on repetitive questions.
Alright, looking over the car and getting it set up for Saturday [won't have time to get any testing done this week], I discovered that I've actually been running the stock standoffs up front, not the tall standoffs I thought I'd installed.
I have a set of black fronts waiting to be picked up and trued when I get to the track Saturday, straightened the motor side pod plate [replacement on the way], and rewired my battery wires so I can move my shock mount forward easier. Also have some more ball studs of various heights to be able to adjust shock angle as well.
Does this info change the setup change suggestions any?
...
Looking at the laptimes from the main yesterday, it seems like my car comes in too early in the run [lap 4] and starts biting too much as you get later in the run, which follows with my impressions [rare inside tire lift if I pinch off a corner].
For the main yesterday I was using:
1.8 plates up front [soft]
tall stands
50k in the tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
1.5 camber
jaco dbl pink tires
caster shims split [one front one rear]
1.2 links in the rear
gold spring
ae 40wt oil
shock short
.5mm sag
3.5mm ride height
1mm pod droop
15k in the tubes
CRC Greylows
sauce was paragon, 1/3 in the fronts, full rears, about 20 minutes on each. Wiped 5 minutes prior and then scrubbed in on the track before the tone.
The car likes to push REAL hard the first 2 laps, then it's on rails and making up time [or at least not losing time] for the next 3-4 minutes, then it seems to scrub a lot of speed in the high speed corners, but carry more speed and make up time in the lower speed quick corners.
I'm open to suggestions.
Looking at the laptimes from the main yesterday, it seems like my car comes in too early in the run [lap 4] and starts biting too much as you get later in the run, which follows with my impressions [rare inside tire lift if I pinch off a corner].
For the main yesterday I was using:
1.8 plates up front [soft]
tall stands
50k in the tube
3.5mm ride height
.5mm droop
1.5 camber
jaco dbl pink tires
caster shims split [one front one rear]
1.2 links in the rear
gold spring
ae 40wt oil
shock short
.5mm sag
3.5mm ride height
1mm pod droop
15k in the tubes
CRC Greylows
sauce was paragon, 1/3 in the fronts, full rears, about 20 minutes on each. Wiped 5 minutes prior and then scrubbed in on the track before the tone.
The car likes to push REAL hard the first 2 laps, then it's on rails and making up time [or at least not losing time] for the next 3-4 minutes, then it seems to scrub a lot of speed in the high speed corners, but carry more speed and make up time in the lower speed quick corners.
I'm open to suggestions.
Just looking at your set-up briefly....it looks a bit too stiff all around. And with the Dbl. Pinks up front coupled with the amount of camber.....is that why you're on the taller standoffs w/the caster shims split? The lubes are a whole 'nother matter; I know nothing to compare those numbers with.
I'm starting to realize that a softer set-up seems to be a better place to start.
I'm starting to realize that a softer set-up seems to be a better place to start.
The taller standoffs helped calm the front down, so it doesn't carve in quite so aggressively or feel as edgy, the camber was to gain a slight bit more high speed steering, and splitting the caster shims was to take away a tiny bit of exit steering, while giving a bit more entry steering in the slower corners.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
As for stiffness, the stock [1.5] plates for the NFE in the outboard position should be around the same stiffness as the 1.8 plates in the inboard position, and the 1.2 rear flex links are softer than the stock 1.5 fiberglass links
Our carpet is very worn with quite a few bumpy spots, but the car doesn't seem to mind.
I'm going to try and get to the track this week to get some practice in and try some things. I think one of the first things I'm going to try is to put the stock [short] standoffs back on to let the front roll a bit more to provide my high speed steering, and see if that will let me back the dual rate off. Right now my dual rate is around 70%, so my front end setup might be too calm to accomplish what I'm looking for.
Track grip yesterday was pretty good, but I actually had rubber building up on the outside of the front tires, which is something I haven't seen on foams in a very long time.
I dunno, I'll tweak on it and try to figure out if my motor is just too worn down [new one on order], or if my effort to make the car a bit easier to drive has made it too snug all around.
It sounds like the car is pushing to the point that it slowly gums up the fronts. If you lower the front standoffs, stiffen the side dampening and change to the blacks, that should give you more initial and overall steering and eliminate the push. I would go back to maximum caster and reduce static camber as you will have increased camber gain from the added caster. The black fronts dont gum up as easy as a natural rubber tire and will be a little more free. The heavy dampening will drive the front in nice and hard and help keep the car more level at the same time. 17.5 is a tricky class. Its all about corner speed and keeping the car flat in the rear. Let me know how it goes.
Harry,
Something you might bounce off Jason as a place to experiment with? I tried moving the shock mount one hole forward from the "back" position. This was based on some setup advice from Greg "Showtime" Dobrosky off of the 12RR car. For my feel with the CH12, it really suits my driving lines, maybe not for everybody? Seems to have a better "rotation" in the middle corner, maintains corner speed a little better for me. I was having my CH12 "rotate" a bit to quickly and that was scrubbing speed and overheating the fronts. I was chasing a loose condition at the end of the run with front tires that got a little grabby.
Just a thought. Maybe Jason can add to the pluse/minus of making this adjustment?
Aaron
Something you might bounce off Jason as a place to experiment with? I tried moving the shock mount one hole forward from the "back" position. This was based on some setup advice from Greg "Showtime" Dobrosky off of the 12RR car. For my feel with the CH12, it really suits my driving lines, maybe not for everybody? Seems to have a better "rotation" in the middle corner, maintains corner speed a little better for me. I was having my CH12 "rotate" a bit to quickly and that was scrubbing speed and overheating the fronts. I was chasing a loose condition at the end of the run with front tires that got a little grabby.
Just a thought. Maybe Jason can add to the pluse/minus of making this adjustment?
Aaron
I have a set of black fronts waiting to be picked up and trued when I get to the track Saturday, straightened the motor side pod plate [replacement on the way], and rewired my battery wires so I can move my shock mount forward easier. Also have some more ball studs of various heights to be able to adjust shock angle as well.
Does this info change the setup change suggestions any?