R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-20-2005, 04:26 PM   #13726
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow15
reading Crashby's reply and some of the previous post it seems you guys are suggesting i should make the steering link parallel or something like that, does anyone have a pic so i can see what exactly does it mean?
anyone?
also i just found some pic of Hara's 12, but i don't see anything is parallel to whatever... so why is it?

yellow15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 04:50 PM   #13727
Tech Elite
 
speedxl's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portland Oregon.
Posts: 3,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
speedxl - Seems you always know so much. The patent, I believe is strictly in reguards to foam tires (not off-road) and their exact construction. Legally, anyone can't make these tires as JACO developed (that's right - JACO was the inventor in this construction process) them back in the mid 90's but technology didn't allow for production (adhesives and machinery to produce the tires at an economical price). Now, the technology is there and JACO is producing the tire and has the patent.

Orion patented an electric motor concept that was around from the late 60's so don't say it can't or hasn't been done.
Josh it not a big deal. I just find it humerous that were talking patents for a toy race car tire. I really dont care if someone copys anything I dont manufacture anything either. Its just like I said funny to here about this here. Plus I know your a respectable guy and I wont get into a battle of wits with you because ultimatly your the celebrity and I will be the bad guy for posting my opinion and probably get flamed for it because people here dont know how to understand its a view point and respect it. The outcome doesnt effect your pocket or mine. And I have nothing against Jaco its just funny how everything is resovled with law suits. I am not arguing with you I am just having a casual chat with you, we both have our view and I am sure we will respect them.
__________________
Pemberton / R1 / All out motorsports / Team Power Push
speedxl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 04:57 PM   #13728
Tech Elite
 
speedxl's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portland Oregon.
Posts: 3,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
You might not want to belittle our achievement. We have worked for a number of years developing this tire and have invested a lot of money. We are simply protecting our interests. If it is such a trivial accomplishment, perhaps the next time you get lapped by someone running these tires you will regret making these comments.
I am not putting your achievments down. As you read elswere its humerous to read a "patent" being applied to an rc car tire. I think you have good foam tire's but your rims need to be beefed up, the bearing hole wollows out to easy. I still use them . But If you think that your the only tire manufacture that makes a competitive tire then so be it. There's nothing wrong with parma,trc,tm, or bsr. That comment about being lapped and being sorry thats mute. I still run your tires as I wont take it personal and I am sure you like cash!
__________________
Pemberton / R1 / All out motorsports / Team Power Push
speedxl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 05:15 PM   #13729
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 285
Default

Josh or Jack,

What are the prices? Are they in stock anywhere? Can my local shop get them?
jrrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 05:15 PM   #13730
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,401
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

How can I find more information on this patent application? I have tried to use the date to come up with information, but I don't see anything about the 2 stage tire. Can you reveal the title or inventor name?
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 05:48 PM   #13731
Tech Elite
 
odpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow15
anyone?
also i just found some pic of Hara's 12, but i don't see anything is parallel to whatever... so why is it?
Steve meant having the tie rods paralell to the chassis when viewed from the front. This will minimize bump steer because the angle of the tie rods will change the least as the servo turns.
odpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 06:26 PM   #13732
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
Steve meant having the tie rods paralell to the chassis when viewed from the front. This will minimize bump steer because the angle of the tie rods will change the least as the servo turns.
so does that mean (2) is better than (1) ?
yellow15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:07 PM   #13733
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,016
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
Oh boy here we go. Patent 2 foam strips glued together and they think they were the inventers. Every body in this hobby has heared and probably seen or used 2 stage foam inserts, so why would this be any different?
Also foam tires have been out since the 70's in split compounds! Legally anyone can make these tires.
Its Like pizza hut sueing a buddy of mine for the stuff crust pizza. He's been selling it at his pizzeria for 10 years before they did. And its been done in Italy since forever! Get for real!

I cant believe this!
I even remember them in the mid-sixties for slot cars.
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:13 PM   #13734
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,016
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow15
so does that mean (2) is better than (1) ?
Neither is really better in certain situations.

On real race cars, we would have the steering tie rods going slightly downward from the steering box arm to the spindle arms. This was so the toe would be the same amount under braking (tie rods down a couple degrees) as it was under acceleration (tie rods up a couple degrees). We would have marks on our front shocks to tell us where the suspension was under braking and under accelleration. Pretty simple after that.

In r/c cars, you can use washers on the servo arm attachments and/or the spindle arms to adjust the angles of the tie rods.
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.

Last edited by JRX-S Bill; 07-20-2005 at 08:36 PM.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:23 PM   #13735
Tech Elite
 
odpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRX-S Bill
Neither is really better in certain situations.

On real race cars, we would have the tie rods going slightly downward from the steering box arm to the spindle arms. This was so the toe would be the same amount under braking as it was under acceleration.
The actual geometry of a given race car determines what angles produce the least bump steer. On 1/12th scale cars yellow15's fig 2 seems to work best.

PS 12th scale cars are real race cars. nyahh!
odpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:39 PM   #13736
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,016
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Family Dog, Family Dog, Family Dog.

Only others of our age bracket from SF Bay Area will understand that.

Real to me is 1:1 not 1:12. You had to be there...he, he...

Bill
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:41 PM   #13737
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chesterfield Michigan
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
Just to let everyone know... JACO Racing Products, Inc. filed for a US patent on the "2-stage tire" on November 29, 2004. Anyone attempting to duplicate this technology ( as it sounds like on this thread) will be infringing on our patent.
Jack this is Tony from T.M. Please send us any pertinent info on your patent for 2-Stage tires.
We will review it and if we are infringing on your patent we will stop production on our DUAL LAYER tires. If your already have the patent
please include the number. If it is patent pending we will need what the patent was applied for.

Josh I dont know what you mean we didn't have the technology in the 90's
our DUAL LAYER tires are not that hard to make they are just time consuming
since you have to do everything twice. We made our first DUAL LAYER tires in about 2 and a half days.
at a cost of about $150
tireman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:44 PM   #13738
Tech Elite
 
odpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,187
Default

Bill-
I was there. for twelve frikkin' years. Just cuz you can't get kilt with an rc car don't mean it aint a real race car
odpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 08:48 PM   #13739
Tech Adept
 
Nick-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
Josh it not a big deal. I just find it humerous that were talking patents for a toy race car tire. I really dont care if someone copys anything I dont manufacture anything either. Its just like I said funny to here about this here. Plus I know your a respectable guy and I wont get into a battle of wits with you because ultimatly your the celebrity and I will be the bad guy for posting my opinion and probably get flamed for it because people here dont know how to understand its a view point and respect it. The outcome doesnt effect your pocket or mine. And I have nothing against Jaco its just funny how everything is resovled with law suits. I am not arguing with you I am just having a casual chat with you, we both have our view and I am sure we will respect them.
Well as you can tell I am not much of a talker but in this case I just had to speak up.

One thing I understand very well is how tough it really is to be a small business owner. Here are two guys working damn hard to bring good products to market so they can make ends meat. How can you stand on the sidelines and get any sort of chuckle over a tire patent? This is business and there are an awful lot of people that need to make sales to eat. I don't see your point of view for mocking that in any way.

Jack, congrats on the patent and new products. I honestly can't wait to give this stuff a shot.

Josh, congrats on everything you have acomplished over the past few years. I still don't get how do it.

Don't let this bum drag you down an inch, keep on innovating and file for those patents damn it. Protect your ideas!

Nick
Nick-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2005, 09:10 PM   #13740
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,016
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
Bill-
I was there. for twelve frikkin' years. Just cuz you can't get kilt with an rc car don't mean it aint a real race car
What do you mean? I have been close to kilt by some nitro r/c cars.
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:55 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0