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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 06-25-2005, 09:47 PM   #13441
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With the little discussion regarding the spring steel T plate, on a sidenote, I have never seen a Titanium T plate offered. Does anyone know if they exist? I've seen carbonfibre T plates (could have been black pigmented glass), how about other materials like kevlar, or carbon kevlar hybrids or even aluminum.

I have been ready to fabricate my own Ti T plate I just have concerns of a meltdown if the batteries shifted. Any thoughts?

PK
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:05 PM   #13442
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I don't believe Ti would work very well due to it's "flex" qualities or lack of.
Ti does not flex well, it more or less bends and stays that way or breaks.
Aluminum would bend and stay bent.


Just my .02 cents
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:09 PM   #13443
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As for kevlar, kevlar alone I don't think would work.
But a kevlar fiberglass or kevlar graphite weave would probably give the same flex qualities of fiber or graphite alone but I think it would be stronger against impact fracture.
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Old 06-26-2005, 06:13 AM   #13444
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I was going just the opposite on all materials compared to Fibreglass.

It seems spring steel is a popular alternative to glass, and with the current trends in motorsport spring designs, Ti gets good marks for performance though suffers on added cost. Properly done Titanium is more lively than spring steel and stronger, with minmal fatigue issues.

Aluminum has many alloys and heatreatments available. I have to disagree on the aluminum bending and remaining bent. Yes it could be bent in a crash or if a non heatreated type were used, but that would be a foolish choice.

I have seriously considered building Kevlar T plates for myself, that is my second material choice behind the TI for performance. The better thing with kevlar is it, like glass, is non conductive to a battery shift.

Your ideas and thoughts on flex amounts I understand, but with any custom designed composite part, strength can be gained or adjusted by ply orientations, number of plys, shape etc.

The other issue here is that not all cars require the torsion twisting of the T plate how Associated uses it. Several cars as designed run no tweak screws at the forward end of the T plate, The CRC's being a popular example.

I like to hear more if others could add to this. But it sure is easier to pay the $4 and keep replacing them.

Thanks

PK
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Old 06-26-2005, 11:02 AM   #13445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK
I was going just the opposite on all materials compared to Fibreglass.

It seems spring steel is a popular alternative to glass, and with the current trends in motorsport spring designs, Ti gets good marks for performance though suffers on added cost. Properly done Titanium is more lively than spring steel and stronger, with minmal fatigue issues.

Aluminum has many alloys and heatreatments available. I have to disagree on the aluminum bending and remaining bent. Yes it could be bent in a crash or if a non heatreated type were used, but that would be a foolish choice.

I have seriously considered building Kevlar T plates for myself, that is my second material choice behind the TI for performance. The better thing with kevlar is it, like glass, is non conductive to a battery shift.

Your ideas and thoughts on flex amounts I understand, but with any custom designed composite part, strength can be gained or adjusted by ply orientations, number of plys, shape etc.

The other issue here is that not all cars require the torsion twisting of the T plate how Associated uses it. Several cars as designed run no tweak screws at the forward end of the T plate, The CRC's being a popular example.

I like to hear more if others could add to this. But it sure is easier to pay the $4 and keep replacing them.

Thanks

PK
The T bar acts as a suspension component. It acts as a torsion bar type suspension to control roll in a car and it also acts as a spring to support up and down movement of the chassis. Because it is acting as a suspension component, it must have outstanding memory characteristics meaning that the T bar must always return to its original position. Fiberglass has been used since the inception of the T bar car first introduced by Associated in the 12L many years ago. There have been numerous variations of the T bar car by many manufactures over the years but it still continues to be the design of choice for many reasons. Simplicity, compact and low cost is probably the primary reasons a T bar car is so popular and it does work well, to a point. Because the T bar acts as a spring, placing a coil over shock on the car is redundant. You now have two springs on the car trying to control up and down movement. This also happens when you place coil over shocks on the side to control roll. The ideal thing to do would be to use only the shock without the spring. But this does not work because to get the T bar to support the car fully loaded with all its components, batteries, motor, ESC, etc. the T bar would have to be very thick. So thick that the side to side movement to control the roll of the car would be severely hampered. The only design variation that I have not experimented with is to have a T bar thick enough to support the weight of the car, remove the tweak screws, and place a center shock on the car without a spring and then place coil over shocks on the side to control the roll. I have experimented with over the counter T bars and no tweak screws and three coil over shocks with limited success. There are some BMI guys that are having some success with a three coil over shock application but I found it did not suit my driving style.

Fiberglass T bars will begin to loose their memory due to the constant flexing at the high stress points, especially if you crash and cause the T bar to move past it's designed limits of movement. This will show up as tiny white stress lines in the T bar where the T bar makes the tight radius to connect to the lower motor pod plate. Once a T bar begins to develop those stress marks, your car will not maintain proper tweak and therefore the handling will be inconsistent. Time to replace the T bar. Thusly, the spring steel T bar offers the best of everything. Extremely high memory and extremely high durability. Kevlar has always intrigued me due to its toughness quality and its possible ability to minimize stress fatigue. As for the use of titanium as a T bar material, I would think that the cost of titanium and the additional cost of a treatment process to make it have the same or greater memory than spring steel would make it cost prohibitive for the average racer. While I would never discourage anyone from experimenting, I think if you want to make something out of titanium, make some wheel hubs and or motor pod plates. You would have racers lining up to buy those types of components. Or better yet, make those same pieces out of magnesium!!
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Old 06-26-2005, 11:22 AM   #13446
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I have to agree that magnesium is a great material, but it's very difficult to work with. Though titanium pod plates and wheel hubs would be great!

Another thing, can someone give me a average gear ratio for a 19t motor?
It doesn't have to be for a specific motor or track, just an indication so I know where I have to be.
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:01 AM   #13447
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Crashby, thanks for the very detailed explanation of Tbars. Couple of things though.

Associated for sure did not come up with the idea, long before Associated had the 12L, Deltas were runing Tbars on Super Phasers, there may have been others before this, but to my knowledge Delta was first about 5 years before Associated. No big deal.

FWIW, not all Tplate cars use the Tplate for a torsion spring. You mentioned this in referencing triple shock setup cars. Also the CRC cars have a floating Tplate setup where the tweak is set by preloading side springs. For consistancy, my L4 is moving away from a Tplate for centering chassis roll.

In regards to the use of Titanium for a Tplate, just as in making most RC parts from Carbonfibre or Glassfibre, you start with a flat sheet. Titanium sheet is readily available in a heattreated condition, so it becomes a matter of just "cutting it out", and installing. Titanium also has excellent memory and fatigue life, plus is extremely strong. I wouldn't be suprised if instead of bending or breaking a Ti tplate, it rather sheared the scews that secure the pivot ball sockets to the T plate.

The idea being to run a thin Titanium Tplate and place more control into the shock spring, similar to a linkage car AND not use the Tplate for any springing of roll control. Hopefully I can make the setup where the Tplate is having almost no effect on the chassis setup other than keeping the rear secured to the front. Then again I may just get lazy and not bother.

The idea of making other components from Ti is novel, but offers no real gains. For general comparison, steel being the reference, ti is about half the weight of steel and similar strength, aluminum is about one third the weight of steel and about one third the strength. These are just general comparisons as aluminum can vary widely depending on alloy and heat treatment.

So in regards to rear pods, aluminum is good and if the makers of the pods used a better alloy they would be able to make them stronger with no weight penalty, or make them more compact at similar strength. Somehow I was lead to beleive that most companies, other than niftech, used 6061 while niftech used 7075 which is a substantial difference in strength.

PK
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:45 AM   #13448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK
Crashby, thanks for the very detailed explanation of Tbars. Couple of things though.

Associated for sure did not come up with the idea, long before Associated had the 12L, Deltas were runing Tbars on Super Phasers, there may have been others before this, but to my knowledge Delta was first about 5 years before Associated. No big deal.

FWIW, not all Tplate cars use the Tplate for a torsion spring. You mentioned this in referencing triple shock setup cars. Also the CRC cars have a floating Tplate setup where the tweak is set by preloading side springs. For consistancy, my L4 is moving away from a Tplate for centering chassis roll.

In regards to the use of Titanium for a Tplate, just as in making most RC parts from Carbonfibre or Glassfibre, you start with a flat sheet. Titanium sheet is readily available in a heattreated condition, so it becomes a matter of just "cutting it out", and installing. Titanium also has excellent memory and fatigue life, plus is extremely strong. I wouldn't be suprised if instead of bending or breaking a Ti tplate, it rather sheared the scews that secure the pivot ball sockets to the T plate.

The idea being to run a thin Titanium Tplate and place more control into the shock spring, similar to a linkage car AND not use the Tplate for any springing of roll control. Hopefully I can make the setup where the Tplate is having almost no effect on the chassis setup other than keeping the rear secured to the front. Then again I may just get lazy and not bother.

The idea of making other components from Ti is novel, but offers no real gains. For general comparison, steel being the reference, ti is about half the weight of steel and similar strength, aluminum is about one third the weight of steel and about one third the strength. These are just general comparisons as aluminum can vary widely depending on alloy and heat treatment.

So in regards to rear pods, aluminum is good and if the makers of the pods used a better alloy they would be able to make them stronger with no weight penalty, or make them more compact at similar strength. Somehow I was lead to beleive that most companies, other than niftech, used 6061 while niftech used 7075 which is a substantial difference in strength.

PK
Your correct about the Delta cars I had several versions of that car. How could I forget?!?

As far as using ti for motor pod plates, you state that ti offers superior strength over aluminum so why would you not make them out of ti? Rear axle hubs bend very easily so again, why would you not make them out of ti? You are also correct about the Niftech motor pod plates. They are the only company I have found that makes their motor pod plates out of 7075 but Ray is not making them anymore. OD and I contact him on a regular basis, trying to get him to make more but even with a promise of buying all he could make, he still has no interest in making more.

You did not address the possibilities of using magnesium. What say you about that material? I had a magnesium right side clamping hub that I got from a company called Dialed Racing many, many years ago but it is for a two bolt pattern and no longer applicable to modern wheels.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:40 AM   #13449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashby
As far as using ti for motor pod plates, you state that ti offers superior strength over aluminum so why would you not make them out of ti?
What's the thermal conductivity of titanium vs. aluminum?
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:55 AM   #13450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
What's the thermal conductivity of titanium vs. aluminum?
7075 Aluminum is 130W/m-k
6Al-4V Titanium is 6.7 W/m-k

information courtesy of www.matweb.com

-James
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Old 06-27-2005, 12:43 PM   #13451
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What do you guys use to lubricate the damper plate?
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Old 06-27-2005, 12:46 PM   #13452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
What do you guys use to lubricate the damper plate?

Everything!! YOu'll need a good selection from 50 wt shock oil, 100wt shock oil to something really thick like Losi thick hydra fluid. Also a good way to get different thickness lubes is to buy different weight OFNA silicone oil like 5,000 to 50,000. Three distinctly different weights should do. Thin, med and heavy.
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Old 06-27-2005, 12:49 PM   #13453
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The first t-bar car was the delta phaser. This was before the super phaser. It was introduced at the 1981 worlds, which it won. (yes, I was there) Art Carbonel won the race with Kevin Orton (Tekin) also in the A main. On ther phaser the t-bar was bolted to the chassis unlike todays cars that are articulated.
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Old 06-27-2005, 03:11 PM   #13454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrc
The first t-bar car was the delta phaser. This was before the super phaser. It was introduced at the 1981 worlds, which it won. (yes, I was there) Art Carbonel won the race with Kevin Orton (Tekin) also in the A main. On ther phaser the t-bar was bolted to the chassis unlike todays cars that are articulated.
Wow! You must be really old!
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Old 06-27-2005, 08:03 PM   #13455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
Wow! You must be really old!
What? What? We are all old...he, he...But, WE know how to have fun...
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