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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 07-08-2002, 06:32 PM   #1081
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Trips- No problem and in truth I actually enjoy hearing others thoughts on various subjects.

I understand that the normal definition of unsprung weight refers to those pieces that are not supported by the springs. However our 12th scale suspensions aren't exactly like normal cars.

My personal theory of why our body is unsprung weight is:
In our 12th scales the suspension system is allowed to react with no interaction/distortion from the structure of the body. In other words the body on our cars is not an integrated/load bearing structure.

Thus it's weight is not directly supported by the springs as in a normal suspension setup similar to the conditions you find with "normal" unsprung pieces such as wheels, suspension arms, etc. It's (body) attached like the wheels are for instance but...

Maybe this is the reason why they went to monocoque builds were the suspension becomes part of the load bearing structure instead of the old unibody/bushing sub-frame builds.

If I am correct (and I may not be) those older builds flexed more and the bodies were actually a completely seperate frame from the suspension and its frame. This made the body become one more giant item that the suspension had to try and control. This seems exactly like the nature of unsprung weight and our bodies.

We see examples of this "backward" process when we look at Roll Centers. In full size cars because the CG is always high vs. our 12th's so you do the opposite for Roll Center Tuning that you do for our 12th scales. The only cars that mimick our 12th scale CG's and thus Roll Center Tuning are....you guessed it... F1's!

If you think about it our bodies actually "float" somewhat while the main pieces that are being "sprung" are the rear pod, drive line/wheel assembly and front axle/kingpin/wheel assembly.

It's kind of a weird way of looking at it I know and it may be wrong.

Just my opinion as of now but it may change as that's the nature of learning and I usually enjoy learning.
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Old 07-08-2002, 06:39 PM   #1082
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Hi everybody,
I HAVE JUST GOT A CORALLY SP12M,IM NEW TO ON-ROAD & DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT TWEAK,IVE BEEN TWEAK-ING MY CAR BY PUTTING 1P ON EACH FRONT WHEEL.BUT AT A RACE MEETING A BLOKE DID IT FROM THE REAR,COULD ANYONE EXPLAIN HOW TO SET THE TWEAK FROM THE REAR.
THANKS..
STE
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Old 07-08-2002, 06:58 PM   #1083
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Just finished painting one of my "famous" one color paint jobs....Fluorescent Racing Red.....no, its not pink as my wife says...lol.......but the sucka GLOWS......should look good on grey Ozite.....Parma "LW-8"......
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:03 PM   #1084
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BTW- on my last wacky post "were" should be "where".

Steve- It's ok, don't sweat it. While I personally like tweaking the car from the rear bottom motor pod plate many do so from the front center of the chassis with good results as well.

First off are you using the "tweak screws" that come in the kit? If not then your Corrally doesn't have tweak to set because the rear pod simply "floats" and is therfore self-centering.

Now, assuming that you are using the tweak screws the way to tweak a 12th car from the rear is as follows: Find the center line of the chassis (it should be inline with the holes for your t-bar pivots). Next make a mark on your rear pod plate at the back that is inline with the centerline of your chassis plate. Now when you have all of your equipement in place before you run your car go to a flat space and put the car on it. With the rear of the car facing you bring the rear tires toward you and the edge of the flat surface. Next take an exacto blade or thin flat edge screw driver and place it under the mark you made on the rear pod plate (the bottom one). Now look to see which wheel lifts first and whichever one it is tighten down the opposite screw to that wheel. IE. Left rear tire lifts first tighten the right tweak screw. Continue until both rear tires lift from the flat surface at the same time. - hope this helps you.

DS- C'mon...you know your wife is correct and the color is actually pink. In either case I have to have mine painted for me by Rob King of Kickaso paints because I can't even spray one color well. hehehehe
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:18 PM   #1085
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Thats how its done on other 1/12s but the corally sp12m is different. The tweak screws are on the connecting plate pushing down on the T-bar instead of on the T-bar pushing down on the chasis. You need to tighten down the side that comes up first.
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Old 07-09-2002, 09:48 AM   #1086
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thanks for the advice on how to tweak from the rear ..But..The bloke that set my tweak also asked how much role i like,i had no idea-so he set it with the tweak screws,lifting the rear tyres & seeing how high they are,I let him do it but i did'nt really understand what he was doing,could anyone explain what he was doing how to do it & how high the rear wheels should be etc.
Hope you can help
steve
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Old 07-09-2002, 10:58 AM   #1087
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Thanks Jimmy for the correction.
Steve- I think the bloke was referring to the stiffness of the t-bar action. On Trinity/Associated/Six-Pack cars you must change the t-bar to different thicknesses in order to change the stiffness or "roll" of the t-bar. Think of it as the Corrally having an adjustable rear sway bar vs. everyone elses non-adjustable one. When you want to change a non-adjustable sway bar you must remove it completely and replace it with the one you want and an adjustable sway bar you simply adjust it on the vehicle.

Now if memory serves me correctly (and it may not LOL!) the further back the screws are towards the motor the "stiffer" the action and the less rear grip you will have. You have to remember that there are basically four parameters for grip expressed three ways (think friction circle):

1. Forward (or acceleration) traction. 2. Side (or corner) traction.
3. Transient traction and Reaction

You can make an adjustment to a car that will increase its side traction in a corner but decrease its forward traction coming out or increase its transitional handling reaction time.
The result would be that you would not be able to get on the gas as early coming out of the corner but would be better in it while changing directions quicker.

I tell you this because when you move the screws further back it should not only decrease REAR Side traction but you will also decrease REAR Forward traction AND INCREASE Side to Side (transient) Reaction (responsiveness) and Traction. It should be the equivelant of using a thicker t-bar. Also buy doing this you will need to race on a smoother surface because the rear will become stiffer in its forward motion.

That's why we have shocks on our cars because they do very effective jobs for dampening the forward/rearward motion of the t-bar and thus become important tuning aids for forward rear traction. We probably use this tuning aid as much for forward rear bite adjustments as we do for bumpy track surface adjustments where often if the track is too bumpy a thinner t-bar in conjunction with a softer spring will be used.

So to summarize, your car comes with the ability to adjust the 3 above mentioned parameters without changing the t-bar. If you go to Orion's website and view the 12th worlds coverage you will see (if you haven't already) the picks of the Corrally cars latest bits.

They have made a new motor pod top plate to decrease the flex of the standard plastic one and added a shock. This is to gain better control over the Forward bite of the Rear wheels and adjust better for Bumpy Track conditions. It would not surprise me if the t-bar they are using is thinner than stock also. Standard t-bars for carpet racing are .075" thick
(I think that's about 1.875 mm.). The standard typically used for asphalt racing is .064-.068" thick on the t-bar
(I think that's about 1.6-1.7mm). The standard Corrally t-bar may be different than these two parameters and that's why I think they may have been running a different thickness at the Worlds with the revised setups which are more typical to 12th scales.
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Old 07-09-2002, 11:48 AM   #1088
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darnold,

Interesting theories, and I'm certainly not qualified to say with any certainty that you're right or wrong.

I've always considered the entire rear pod, axle, diff, motor, etc. as unsprung weight in a 1/12 scale car... When I was hevily into 1/12 scale years ago, I was looking at ways to develop a chassis that retained the solid axle required for rules compliance, but would float the axle separately from the motor, so the mass of the motor would become sprung weight. I've always felt that there is an optimum sprung/unsprung weight ratio for any circumstance, and Iv'e always felt that 1/12 scale designs are biased way too much toward unsprung weight due to the rear pod design.

Looks like I'll be getting back into the 1/12 scale fray this year, a new carpet track has opened in the area, 106*50 ft and it's billiard table smooth... I've always wanted to run 1/12 on a big fast track, now that there's one close by I can't let the opportunity pass. I'm guessing I'll go with either the Trinity or Corally SP12M car. The only 1/12 chassis I have on hand right now are an old all metal SP12, and an even older Delta Super Spyder. I'd never run the Delta, but I might briefly resurrect the old Corally... It'd be interesting to see how it would fare against today's cars.

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Old 07-09-2002, 12:14 PM   #1089
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Trips- Glad to hear your ideas. Actually we may think in similar ways on this because I have never (to my recollection) heard anyone say that the rear pod assembly is unsprung. However, I actually agree with you on it. Concerning my ideas on the body being unsprung it's probably inaccurate but who knows?

BTW why would you run your Super Spyder? From what I remember before getting out of the hobby that car was killer but it was a little on the fragile side with the rear pod and front beam. I wonder if that car with a stiffer chassis plate, better rear pod, and Trinity front suspension would be killer now???? Expecially with Assoc. VSC shocks like we use now. The rear pod could be stiffened with a graphite cross brace on top and a bottom plate which would allow you to remove the center section of metal in the rear of the pod and save some weight. Hmmmm....

By the way back in 1981 MRP came out with a novel design that used springs in the rear axle cam area so that the axle was independent but the motor pod was fixed. This would accomplish what you were looking for. For some reason it didn't catch on, probably due to the lack of forward dampened motion. Of course springs on the top, bottom and sides of the axle cams could do the trick but mini silicone shocks similar to our damper tubes would have to be made.

In the end I'm not sure enough dampening fore and aft could be made but it would be something to see/try. Maybe a hybrid where the rear pod only moves fore and aft but you have the springs in the axle cams for the rear axle to move up and down would do the trick.

That way the fore and aft movements could be dampened with a standard micro shock and the up and down movements of the axle which may simulate the side to side movement of the t-bar could be take over by the cam springs. I'm sure it's all goofy but who knows???
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Old 07-09-2002, 12:17 PM   #1090
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Trips- Please excuse, that should be "why wouldn't you run your Super Spyder"???
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Old 07-09-2002, 12:31 PM   #1091
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Hello again,ive just been on the orion site but i caint find the corally pictures,could you please give me the link to the corally pictures,has i would like to put a shock on the damper,ive also got a rc12l3 & i took the shock of that and put it on the sp12m,but one of the team corally drivers told me to take it off.i tried this when i first started 1/12th a year ago after a 10 year brake,i use to race off-road-but it seems pritty dead know,+ i love the "speed" you get from 1/12th.
nice 1
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Old 07-09-2002, 03:26 PM   #1092
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Its o.k i found the picture on Orio's web-site.cheers
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Old 07-09-2002, 05:00 PM   #1093
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Soko - I have raced in 2 nitro races this year. I won the 1/10 4WD Open class at Edison NJ back in May. The next time I came back with the 1/8 and was TQ until the last qualifying heat. Ended up second, one second back. Didn't run the main due to an injury suffered while marshalling after my last qualifier. Run the NEO Attack and the Saber, not the Mugen.

So to all of the rest of you. Are you all having trouble with your balance, thus talking about Roll Centers and so on, or are you practicing your driving where all of the improvement takes place?
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Old 07-09-2002, 08:11 PM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally posted by darnold
Trips- Please excuse, that should be "why wouldn't you run your Super Spyder"???
I bought the Delta used more to have a car from the period than to race it. I suppose it might make an interesting project someday, but for now I'm pretty settled on a 12sj.

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Old 07-09-2002, 08:39 PM   #1095
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Davidl.......i agree.....most improvements come on the track.....nuttin' wrong with knowledge though...an example...there is this local racer......about 15 or so....can drive the wheels off of any off road vehicle......but he doesnt touch his car, a friend of his does all the work....I'm sure he doesnt know jack about roll center....but, hes fast........if he knew more about setting up a car, would he be faster....he might?
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