R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-01-2005, 10:39 AM   #10666
Tech Fanatic
 
revzalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nor * Cal
Posts: 959
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default Re: Re: 12l4 project completed

Quote:
Originally posted by JDXray
Revz your L4 is looking SWEET! Kinda like Masami? lol

Whats that white stuff under your damper plates??
Thanks JD. Yeah the teflon is good stuff. The rear suspension moves much smoother added that I sanded the top plate with 2000 grit sandpaper. Don't go any lower than 2000.
__________________
www.revzalotmotorsports.com
revzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:41 AM   #10667
Tech Fanatic
 
primusblowsgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pingree Grove, IL
Posts: 987
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to primusblowsgoat Send a message via Yahoo to primusblowsgoat
Default

revzalot, when you say you blueprinted the rear axle and plates, what does that mean exactly?
__________________
Schumacher Racing
Schumacher Cat SX2
Schumacher Cougar SV
primusblowsgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:42 AM   #10668
Tech Fanatic
 
revzalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nor * Cal
Posts: 959
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Stamper
I like the durability of the spring steel plate, but what I didn't like was the consistancy. I run stock with all 3 screws in the t-plate with the medium and medium stiff ss bar and the car was more consistant lap after lap with the fiberglass. I could turn some faster laptimes with the medium-firm bar though.

What I also noticed is that I left a couple of spare ones in my glove box and they rusted. That made for an interesting look.

It's still up in the air, but I only broke 2 fiberglass t-plates this season so far and the ss plate is around $30. I raced at least 2-3 times a week and practiced 2 days a week so there was a lot of running on those plates.

Tim
What about carbon fiber? CF provides great dampening characteristics as fiberglass. I have some cf lying and will give it a try. Doesn't the CRC T-Fource have CF t-plates?
__________________
www.revzalotmotorsports.com
revzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:43 AM   #10669
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Worthington, OH
Posts: 164
Default Re: Re: Re: 12l4 project completed

Quote:
Originally posted by revzalot
Thanks JD. Yeah the teflon is good stuff. The rear suspension moves much smoother added that I sanded the top plate with 2000 grit sandpaper. Don't go any lower than 2000.
Where did you purchase the Teflon tape?
Hondaguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:45 AM   #10670
Tech Fanatic
 
revzalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nor * Cal
Posts: 959
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: 12l4 project completed

Quote:
Originally posted by Hondaguy
Where did you purchase the Teflon tape?
Lowes or any hardware store for $1.00 and used double sided tape for adhesion.
__________________
www.revzalotmotorsports.com
revzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:55 AM   #10671
Tech Fanatic
 
revzalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nor * Cal
Posts: 959
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by primusblowsgoat
revzalot, when you say you blueprinted the rear axle and plates, what does that mean exactly?
I've carefully sanded the axle plates a little wider where the bearings sits. This will reduce binding of the bearings. Metals expands during load. Before it was a pain to stick the bearings in the axle pates. I've noticed the axle spins much better now. Very good mod to do.
__________________
www.revzalotmotorsports.com
revzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 10:59 AM   #10672
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 814
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by WVRACER
came up with another question for you guys. man the more i dig the more i find on these 12th scales

spring steel t-plates yes no maybe

is there any bennifit to having this option or should one stick with the fiberglass


thanks
Rob
I ran a Silva .071 spring steel T bar in my Yokomo/CRC/IRS hybrid out doors on asphalt all last summer with great results. I rarely had to adjust the tweak and when I did it was just to compensate for uneven tire wear. The problem with the fiberglass T bars is that even though you may not break one, they do begin to loose their memory. Meaning that a fiberglass T bar will not return to center due to the fibers in the fiberglass breaking which can sometimes be seen by a white mark where the T bar makes the transition from the chassis to the motor pod. Most often though there is no outward visible signs of degradation. So determining when to replace a fiberglass T bar becomes a guessing game. Before spring steel T bars came along, I was changing my fiberglass T bar about every 16 runs unless I took a very hard hit at which point I would change it then, even if it wasn't broken.

My only knock on spring steel T bars is that I wish I could get one thinner than .070 to soften up the rear of the car more. Even so, I will never run fiberglass T bars again.
Crashby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 11:04 AM   #10673
Tech Elite
 
litespeed-dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 3,990
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

CRC also makes the 2 pod discs (the 2 round black plastic pieces) in white teflon as well. Makes a damn smooth movement. Click on my sig pic of my old YRX-12 and you'll see it. The teflon circle sticker I used for my rear pod plate was made by some company, and it has little dimples on it, so the oil/grease can retain on the sticker/disc better. If you use just flat teflon tape, it works, but after awhile, all the oil/grease disappears.

Dom
__________________
Team Kyosho America - Team Br00d Racing - Team R/C Plus - GQ Racing Tyres - Slapmaster Tools - FSX Racing
litespeed-dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 11:06 AM   #10674
Tech Regular
 
WVRACER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SCOTT DEPOT WV
Posts: 491
Send a message via AIM to WVRACER
Default

ok one for and one agenst

i run carpet have you ran the ss on carpet and with the same success


thanks
rob
WVRACER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 11:24 AM   #10675
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 814
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by WVRACER
ok one for and one agenst

i run carpet have you ran the ss on carpet and with the same success


thanks
rob
No. Not yet as I run a Speed Merchant Rev.4 on carpet but... I am building a Trinity Reflex 12 and I will be running a spring steel T bar on it. My team mates keep telling me that for mod I should run a T bar car so I am building the Reflex 12 to test their theory. Although I am a bit skeptical of their reasons why a T bar car is superior to a link car in mod. But we will see.
Crashby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 11:30 AM   #10676
Tech Addict
 
JohnB's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oregon City, Or
Posts: 674
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I have played with teflon disk a lot lately. They are good to have in your box as a tuning tool. I came this conclusion as far as dampening.
Softest to hardest:
Stock disk with 100 wt. oil
Teflon disk with Trinity Red Stuff
Stock disk with Trinity Red Stuff

Of course everything in between with different oil and grease and different weight of springs, but those three combinations seem get me everything I need.
They didn't seem any smoother, just changes the dampening. I couldn't use oil with them though. My top plate has holes in it to retain oil, the teflon disk are to small and oil goes everywhere. They are a little smaller than stock. They are fine with grease though.
revzalot - if your using double sided tape to put the teflon on that adds some thickness, did you shorten the springs to keep the same spring rate?

take care
john
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 11:47 AM   #10677
Tech Fanatic
 
revzalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nor * Cal
Posts: 959
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnB

revzalot - if your using double sided tape to put the teflon on that adds some thickness, did you shorten the springs to keep the same spring rate?

take care
john
John: I found a really thin double sided tape by 3m. It shouldn't shorten the spring rates that much since I also sanded the top plate.
__________________
www.revzalotmotorsports.com
revzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 12:21 PM   #10678
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Crashby
No. Not yet as I run a Speed Merchant Rev.4 on carpet but... I am building a Trinity Reflex 12 and I will be running a spring steel T bar on it. My team mates keep telling me that for mod I should run a T bar car so I am building the Reflex 12 to test their theory. Although I am a bit skeptical of their reasons why a T bar car is superior to a link car in mod. But we will see.
Crashby: Link cars were PREVIOUSLY outshone by T-bar cars in Mod, because link cars tend to be more "free" in the middle of the corner, in mod they would sometimes lose rear traction. Your Rev. 4 has been designed to address those issues, and I've watched them equal or better T-bar cars in Mod. At last years Carpet Nats, Jake Pritchard's car looked AMAZING, as did Brian Jucha's. I'm willing to bet that you'll like it every bit as much, if not more, than the Trinity car in Mod.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 12:26 PM   #10679
Tech Addict
 
Tim Stamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Redford, Mi.
Posts: 591
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by revzalot
What about carbon fiber? CF provides great dampening characteristics as fiberglass. I have some cf lying and will give it a try. Doesn't the CRC T-Fource have CF t-plates?
That t-plate is used on the six-pack and t-fource. It is nice and stiff so that the car is controlled by the springs, not the plate and springs. Both of those cars are spring/t-plate cars and you could go either way.

Quote:
Originally posted by Crashby
I ran a Silva .071 spring steel T bar in my Yokomo/CRC/IRS hybrid out doors on asphalt all last summer with great results. I rarely had to adjust the tweak and when I did it was just to compensate for uneven tire wear. The problem with the fiberglass T bars is that even though you may not break one, they do begin to loose their memory. Meaning that a fiberglass T bar will not return to center due to the fibers in the fiberglass breaking which can sometimes be seen by a white mark where the T bar makes the transition from the chassis to the motor pod. Most often though there is no outward visible signs of degradation. So determining when to replace a fiberglass T bar becomes a guessing game. Before spring steel T bars came along, I was changing my fiberglass T bar about every 16 runs unless I took a very hard hit at which point I would change it then, even if it wasn't broken.

My only knock on spring steel T bars is that I wish I could get one thinner than .070 to soften up the rear of the car more. Even so, I will never run fiberglass T bars again.
I agree that it works well for asphalt, just a little too soft for carpet. they are super stiff initially, but once they flex they seem to react too abruptly. I am not the only one who has said this about them. You dump the car into a corner and it fights it's way through because it wants to rebound too fast.

I actually bent two. I don't know how, but one incident happened right before Cleveland '03. I also bent one real bad before cleveland '04 and this was a medium-firm. I checked my new ones and 2 of them were bent a little right out of the package.

Tim
__________________
This space for rent
Tim Stamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2005, 12:30 PM   #10680
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Stamper
I actually bent two. I don't know how, but one incident happened right before Cleveland '03. I also bent one real bad before cleveland '04 and this was a medium-firm. I checked my new ones and 2 of them were bent a little right out of the package.

Tim
Pesky T-bars......
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:30 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0