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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-18-2004, 04:45 AM   #6781
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Quote:
Originally posted by sands
They only allow for free movement to get it aligned properly - then you tighten the nuts to prevent any more movement. This is not any different than having to make sure your adjustable links on the rev3 are the same length - probably better, since there are no links to adjust.

I've yet to see anybody break a CRC link system this season anyway. ( I do use longer steel screws then stock in the pivot balls... )

I've never seen mine pop out of alignment - but then, I've never crashed that hard.

CRC has instructions on how to get it adjusted correctly - it's not really that bad. And no more involved then the REv3 instructions.
ok here we go talking about the link adjustment again. now lets think about this for a moment-there is a problem here. take your link car,set it down in front of you and really look at the pivot system. try to envision the implications of unequal lenght links.can you see? now the chassis,pod plate and football are all milled or machined-there are no imperfections there-so what could ther be to adjust? ah ha! the cheesey molded links! now take another good look and think about what this does-REAR WHEEL STEERING. if you have flaws in the molding process and links dont quite match each other,the only way to fix it is adjust the CAR around the LINKS. wtf? please forgive me , maybe i am uptight but i spend my days repairing and rebuilding sterndrives(mercruiser and volvo/penta) there is no tolerance for "imperfections" in gear shimming procedures-so i expect everything to be like that
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Old 02-18-2004, 05:43 AM   #6782
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
ok here we go talking about the link adjustment again. now lets think about this for a moment-there is a problem here. take your link car,set it down in front of you and really look at the pivot system. try to envision the implications of unequal lenght links.can you see? now the chassis,pod plate and football are all milled or machined-there are no imperfections there-so what could ther be to adjust? ah ha! the cheesey molded links! now take another good look and think about what this does-REAR WHEEL STEERING. if you have flaws in the molding process and links dont quite match each other,the only way to fix it is adjust the CAR around the LINKS. wtf? please forgive me , maybe i am uptight but i spend my days repairing and rebuilding sterndrives(mercruiser and volvo/penta) there is no tolerance for "imperfections" in gear shimming procedures-so i expect everything to be like that
yah - but how much does it really matter? They are small enough plastic parts that if (big if) they come out of a different mold cavity, they will probably only be off by 0.0005 - 0.001" or so. Not enough to notice and well within the tolerances of all the other parts (machined parts too! They will also have error!) and the assembly error. All you really need to do is adjust the toe of the front to compensate. Besides, there is more variation in the front end, tire durometer and axle alignment, runout, and concentricity then in "rear steer".

Probably also more variation in driving ability too - but that's another topic.

If you really want to get involved in statistics and variation, I'd be happy to. I'm a master level mechanical engineer and an industrial statistitian. But let's not clutter up this thread.
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:47 AM   #6783
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Thanks everybody for helping to choose the good way.....
Oh Dumper, there's a crc team in each contry ,true but the team or crc distributor help and sell cars and parts to a few driver look likes in france, there're only five driver in crc.......I'd like have a US car because i always have one for 11 years "RC10T,RC10l,Cobra,etcc..." But i'll get a crc if i'm sure to have a good assistance and help by the team...

So if somebody know europeeen teams, please tell them to do a good job........because it's crc who lose market on corally or asso...
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:54 AM   #6784
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If you have cars traction rolling, then i would suggest the following...

Btw, I am running 80 weight in the center shock, 70 weight works fine as well, just make sure you build the shock so it is very smooth.

Puprles and greys should be perfect for that track, if you are traction rolling or lifting even you can try supergluing the sidewalls of your front tires (traction roll is caused by the front, or so i am told, lol). Stiffer front springs or a softer back also works. If you dont have any losi hydradrive fluid then you can maybe use trinity red stuff, although i dont think it works as well. Maybe really thick 8th scale diff oil like 50k, but to be honest I am not 100% sure what would be the best replacement, since i have tried other things and they dont work as well.

and just a note, t-bar cars (incase you are trying to compare to find something that will work) need alot more dampening in the rear than a links car like a CRC or speedmerchant.
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:56 AM   #6785
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Quote:
Originally posted by sands
yah - but how much does it really matter? They are small enough plastic parts that if (big if) they come out of a different mold cavity, they will probably only be off by 0.0005 - 0.001" or so. Not enough to notice and well within the tolerances of all the other parts (machined parts too! They will also have error!) and the assembly error. All you really need to do is adjust the toe of the front to compensate. Besides, there is more variation in the front end, tire durometer and axle alignment, runout, and concentricity then in "rear steer".

Probably also more variation in driving ability too - but that's another topic.

If you really want to get involved in statistics and variation, I'd be happy to. I'm a master level mechanical engineer and an industrial statistitian. But let's not clutter up this thread.
dont get me wrong Sands-i am not arguing for the sake of argument. i only question things so i can learn. i am curios and question things by nature. and i do appreciate when someone is more knowledgable in the way mechanical things work. as you have stated,you are very qualified and i thank you for your input. i do understand about the tolerances. my point was when i am trying to understand the dynamics of how my rear link works and what could go wrong and someone says to compensate with steering trims,it stilll leaves me in the dark. and i admitt my driving style is in need of improvement i just dont want to get anyone angry-i am only trying to understand. thanks,sean
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:10 AM   #6786
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Newbie to 1/12th here too...I just want a durable car because I'm trying to change my driving style. I have a real bad tendency to drive too hot into the corners. I'm hoping the 1/12th can help me improve my driving.

Blake
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:22 AM   #6787
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Blake, 1/12th will do that...it will teach you some good car control. It's almost as good as trying to drive an overpowered mod buggy in off-road, that improves the skills, too.
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:26 AM   #6788
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Been there...Loved 4wd Mod but the class is all but dead around here.

What about charging for 1/12th scale? I've got 3 Fukuyama packs that I want to treat right.

What about brushes and brush cuts for 1/12th scale?
For touring car I was running full face Putnam Blue/Green with Purple/Red springs. Full face on the brushes.
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:26 AM   #6789
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Default Looking for 1/12th

I am looking to trade a Tamiya F201 for a 1/12th.

The F201 has been run about 5 times. Still has clear body clear. Can get pics if needed.
Thanks
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:52 AM   #6790
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dylanj: drop me an email..

tres@tresleonard.com
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Old 02-18-2004, 08:01 AM   #6791
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Do somebody know crc team uk?
I really want to take part of a new car and team but i'm not really want to have a corally. And if i buy a crc which one sould i take?
Oh if somebody have one to sell,contact me...
Thank you JY
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Old 02-18-2004, 08:37 AM   #6792
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
dont get me wrong Sands-i am not arguing for the sake of argument. i only question things so i can learn. i am curios and question things by nature. and i do appreciate when someone is more knowledgable in the way mechanical things work. as you have stated,you are very qualified and i thank you for your input. i do understand about the tolerances. my point was when i am trying to understand the dynamics of how my rear link works and what could go wrong and someone says to compensate with steering trims,it stilll leaves me in the dark. and i admitt my driving style is in need of improvement i just dont want to get anyone angry-i am only trying to understand. thanks,sean
I don't mean to disparage your thoughts - just that if we are going to get into a very technical discussion, we should do it via PM.

My $0.02 is to get it as close as a good set of calipers will allow you to get it. The key is to not have ANY binding in the rear end. That will cause more problems then a 1/2* alignment problem.

If you run the CRC solid side links do this to ensure a free rear end.

1. polish the pivot balls with a light auto polish - same way king pins are polished.
2. build the rear end per the instructions.
3. with the football loose and the links in place - but the pivot ball properly adjusted (free but no play) set the chassis on a flat surface.
4. tighen the football down.
5. slowly rotate the rear end, ANY binding or clicking is bad. Re-adjust if it is binding. This must be done with no battery, shock disconected, damping tubes off and no motor. The extra mass will mask any binding.
6. Once you are happy, tighten down on the rear end.

After every race day and after any big hit, I recheck for binding. I have had traction links get loose and need to be replaced. If you pop them on an off more then a few times, they will get too loose to use. Probably should keep a few in your box for spares. I also check every screw and bolt for loosening, etc.

If one of the links is slightly longer then the other, you will get a rear steer effect. Personally I think this matters less then having a free rear end. To get the car to drive straight, the front wheels need to be trimmed. This will crab the car a little - but I don't think it will be bad enough to matter. A free front end and a free rear end matter so much more then a little (1/2 degree) crab.

If they are not free, your car will be inconsistent in the corners as the suspension jerks around.

Speedmerchants or adjustable rear links have a different procedure.

As to what can go wrong? Lots; but its no worse then a t-plate delaminating or the screw holes getting worn out, etc..

Last edited by sands; 02-18-2004 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 02-18-2004, 08:51 AM   #6793
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brolzy
Blake, 1/12th will do that...it will teach you some good car control. It's almost as good as trying to drive an overpowered mod buggy in off-road, that improves the skills, too.
Yah, if the good guys pass you on the inside of the corner, or do an "over under" move on you. Then you are driving too hot. Slow down a bit, tighten your lines, and hit a late apex.

I'm not an expert at 1/12th, but it makes me pay far more attention to throttle lift, turn in and how and when I apply the throttle. They all need to be balanced to get a tight line and fast laps.

I've found that faster laps are from going slow and driving a tight line rather then going faster and pushing wide. All that does is mess up the setup for the next corner an slow you down even more. Every race I take a few corners a bit faster. Once I am happy with those corners, I move on to the next series of corners to perfect that line. Halfway though my first season in 1/12th and I'm happy with about 2/3rds of the corners on my track.

The most important corner on the track is the one right before the longest straight, then down from there depending upon the length of the straight after each corner. You can loose the most time by getting off a corner slow. When there are some infield esses on a track, you will see the fast guys eat up 20 feet on the slower cars. Getting that right is also important.

My average lap times have come down about 1/2 second, but the major improvement has been in consistency. My worst laps have come down by about 2-3 seconds since the start of the season. All that and I'm still 5-7 laps off the fastest pace. But then, there are a few factory sponsored guys who I race with on occasion and my batts are only average.
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Old 02-18-2004, 08:52 AM   #6794
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i checked the links with digital cailipers(inside the cups) and found that they almost 1mm off. i think the best soloution is to keep extra links and check them frequently. the first day i drove the car i had a couple of bad wrecks,so that is probably whats wrong.when i get home i am goin to look into how to check for rear steer with the car on a flat surface,no shock or tubes with just the axle in. i think i can take a measurement from the axle to the chassis stand offs. i am not sure exactly yet, i will have to sit down with the car and think about it. more to saisfy my own curiosity than anything
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Old 02-18-2004, 01:06 PM   #6795
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Speedx971- In England you can buy CRC products from Action Model Centre in Paignton.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask or visit www.teamcrc.com
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