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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-08-2004, 04:48 PM   #6631
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Default Sean,

Last Idea,

Switch side springs, try it then switch front springs then try it. This will rule out any of those. I have bent a king pin in a bad crash, I have also sheared off a front axle.

David Root
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:21 PM   #6632
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check to see if the king pin is "hanging" in the steering block. This will cause the car to act tweaked. Ream the steering blocks out with a .127 reamer. This is done on the new strut front end.
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Old 02-09-2004, 02:20 AM   #6633
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Default Re: 1/12 scale 4WD pan car

Quote:
Originally posted by SkidRow
Holland!Cool!Nice to see some european flavour around!Also very nice to hear of people engineering their own chassis!It's called creativity and looking at photos in today's magazines it seems that less people decide to express their own ideas of what their car should be.Let alone have the guts to take it down for a shakedown or race against other off the shelf cars.As a matter of fact I did also engineer my own Pro-10 5 years ago,with which I won my first Pro-10 race!I am interested in seeing photos of your proto!I can send you photos of mine if you are interested too.
I strongly believe that there is no comparison between a touring and a pan car mainly because:

1)The touring car is weighting more than a pan-car and this weight is divided in:
-rotating masses(TC carries one more diff,4 more BB's at least,driveshafts,output shafts,hexagons,pins etc)
-non rotating masses(double deck with bulkheads/tub chassis-much more weighty than a flat piece of carbon/graphite,which has even smaller dimensions when thinking of a 12th scale car-full independent suspension with big bore shocks,wishbones,hingepins etc)

2)The track of your Pro-10 is bigger than that of the TC by 40 too 50 mm,sth that has a huge effect in weight transfer towards the outer wheel in a turn.As known,the wider the track,the smaller the dynamic weight transfer towards the outer wheel in a turn,so assuming you are driving the car as fast as possible,it's less difficult to reach to the car's cornering performance limits ,so Pro-10 does havecertain advantages in good track conditions.Those characteristics,combined with wider rear tires etc,do certainly make a difference in car performance.

All in all,we could chat for hours trying to explain why a pan-car is faster than a TC in near ideal conditions,but that's not of great importance because there are different classes for them to race.
What we should examine is how a 12th scale 4WD pan car would perform when compared with a conventional one.And solutions such as "put tire additive on the tires" are not the ones that one should come up with when engineering a car that he assumes that will outperform it's equivalents,simply because all those speed tricks are already out there in the awareness of every serious racer to use!
As a matter of fact there is currently no 4WD Formula One Car because any form of 4WD is prohibited in F1.And believe me,with the alternative forms of transmitting motion available today,a 4WD F1 would be very-very effective...
Anyway,kind of you to share your view...Anticipating pictures of your scratch-built pan car...
I have a few pictures here of my custom built pro 10. It wasn't completely finished yet, I've made some mods since, and I will pm you some pictures when I've finished, if you like.
I ran the car at two indoor tracks as a shakedown test, and everything felt good. The weather is still too bad to test it outdoors.

My car started out as a used RC10L2. Here's what I modified as seen on the pictures:
-Scratch built 3mm main chassis, which incorporated Corally's battery-buckets.
-Three shock rear suspension with 1 macro shock and 2 micro's.
-Scratch made 3mm rear bottom plate.
-Scratch made 2mm rear upper deck.
-Corally body posts.
-Dynamic strut front end modified with home-made hinge pins and RC10T3 ballstud-kingpin.

Since the pictures were taken the rear off the car has been modified with Asso's L3Touring upper and lower rear pod plates, to center the motor. Also I will make some holes in the main chassis to make it lighter.
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File Type: jpg carbon asso 1.jpg (45.1 KB, 422 views)
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Old 02-09-2004, 02:21 AM   #6634
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Old 02-09-2004, 02:22 AM   #6635
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Old 02-09-2004, 02:23 AM   #6636
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:12 AM   #6637
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Nice work!

Used to run 1/10 pan with wsc/group c bodies. gotta love how much room you have in them.
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:20 AM   #6638
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Quote:
Originally posted by sands
Nice work!

Used to run 1/10 pan with wsc/group c bodies. gotta love how much room you have in them.
Thanks for the kind words!
Yeah, you gotta love pro 10! Fast (like 1/10th NITRO fast) with 12turns. And very very inexpensive to run. Think in terms of 20 euro's for an expensive set of tires, that last 3 months. Almost zero parts wear.
Hey, I can race pro ten at a national level while being a student!
I just wished there were more drivers out there!

We do have our own thread around here:1/10th pan car
Strangely, it's in the Öval larger scales and more" forum!
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Old 02-09-2004, 10:01 AM   #6639
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12L4

Did any one get pics of the 12L4's?
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Old 02-09-2004, 10:51 AM   #6640
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Default

Hey guys when there are this many pages it's hard to find info.
Im looking for the following info.

Gearing for a monster stock on a 100x60 track for these 2 cars.
I am just needing somewhere to start.
12L3-Spur and pinion please.I understand this is a starting point.
Speed Merchant Rev3-Spur and Pinion for stock.

I looked through quite a few pages and didnt find anything.Eyes got tired.lol.

If you guys have any suggestions on the Rev3 as in setups on a large SMOOTH track please email me direct or post here.
Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Thanks,
Les
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Old 02-09-2004, 10:55 AM   #6641
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Default Gear Ratio's

I like 100/23. Depends on your ESC settings.

http://www.rcracing.com/Gear_Ratio_Program_1100.cfm
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Old 02-09-2004, 11:13 AM   #6642
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Quote:
Originally posted by TexRacer
Hey guys when there are this many pages it's hard to find info.
Im looking for the following info.

Gearing for a monster stock on a 100x60 track for these 2 cars.
I am just needing somewhere to start.
12L3-Spur and pinion please.I understand this is a starting point.
Speed Merchant Rev3-Spur and Pinion for stock.

I looked through quite a few pages and didnt find anything.Eyes got tired.lol.

If you guys have any suggestions on the Rev3 as in setups on a large SMOOTH track please email me direct or post here.
Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Thanks,
Les
About a 1.8" rollout. Slightly lower (1.75) for very tight tracks with lots of short straights. Slightly taller (1.85) for a more flowing, faster track. The better and smoother you are, the taller you can go.

Just getting spur and pinion choices doesn't work due to different tire diameters.

Here is a rollout chart that I use for 1/12 scale. Each page is for a different spur gear. then lookup your tire diameter in inches. find the rollout you want and then select the pinion. 90% of the time a 100 tooth spur is fine. Once in a while I go to a 96 or so.
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Old 02-09-2004, 12:23 PM   #6643
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Default Hydra Drive Fluid?

I can't seem to find it on Horizon's site. Anyone have a part number?
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Old 02-09-2004, 01:11 PM   #6644
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Default Re: Hydra Drive Fluid?

Quote:
Originally posted by dr_hfuhuhurr
I can't seem to find it on Horizon's site. Anyone have a part number?
Did you try Capstone? Hobby Bob may have some at Grandview too. Last time I bought some I got it at Ultra, if you hit Ultra's website forum, and the ask the shop section, they may be able to get you a part #.
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Old 02-09-2004, 01:28 PM   #6645
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by TexRacer
Hey guys when there are this many pages it's hard to find info.
Im looking for the following info.

Gearing for a monster stock on a 100x60 track for these 2 cars.
I am just needing somewhere to start.
12L3-Spur and pinion please.I understand this is a starting point.
Speed Merchant Rev3-Spur and Pinion for stock.

I looked through quite a few pages and didnt find anything.Eyes got tired.lol.

If you guys have any suggestions on the Rev3 as in setups on a large SMOOTH track please email me direct or post here.
Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Thanks,
Les
Large smooth track:

.020 front springs, one 2 degree caster shim under front arms, TRC purple tires if high-bite, Cyans if bite is a little low. 1.78" to start.

Rear: 80 wt shock oil, Speedmerchant black shock spring, Blue side springs w/ NO PRELOAD, just enough to set tweak. Medium Hydra Drive fluid in the tubes. Grey rears if bite is good, granite rears if bite is a little low. 1.90" to start. Set pod droop at around 1-2 mm when car is elevated, ride height should be level front to rear, or slightly higher up front when car is fully loaded and ready to run.

Battery tray in rear position.

Parma Speed 8 body.

Rollout between 1.75" and 1.82" depending on how "open" the layout is.
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