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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-26-2002, 08:33 AM   #631
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Dave,
How've you been? I had a good practice this past Sun. First time with the 9 turn in my car. I may need to go down to .020 fronts. The car had good steering but not quite enough. I ended up doping the entire front tire. The rest of my setup is the same. Had no problem putting the power down with the stiffer rear end. I may have to try the raked t-bar trick with the front spacer. I'll have all day Fri. at Indy to figure it out so I should get it close. I run an Atom for my esc. Had it for quite a while and it runs solid. I am thinking about the Quantum though.

When is the Norrca race? I might be interested in going if it's not too close to my move.

I always tweak by the front. I don't trust my eyes to do it by the rear.
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:13 PM   #632
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I was talking with the owner of Windtunnel racing, they do graphite and fiberglass rc parts. He says he can make tbars in custom sizes, like .078, .080, etc, which would actually be the size, unlike most of the stuff available now. Usually an .075 package t bar can be from .070 to .078, and you have to look a long time to find a thick one. So maybe you guys could post what size you would want for carpet. i'm thinking if you could get like .078s all day that would be cool. Or even thicker for real high traction.

website: http://windtunnelracing.homestead.com/associated.html
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:45 PM   #633
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Hey Rob and Jonny what's up? Socko now it makes sense why people have been able to run .22's. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me because I couldn't get enough steering and none of the Fast guys seem to run anything but .20's except for McMahon who typically runs .18's and Jeff Brown typically runs .22's. Everyone else seems stuck on .20's normally and with the info you just provided I think I understnd why now. The motors that everyone typically uses on the "national circuit" are 10-8 turns so maybe the cars are just too fast to get steering with those motors. Rob and I also found out recently that a thick chassis plate like the new Trinity car has or like the old LS had will give more steering with .20's than the more flexible L3 and 6 Pack chassis. As a result since you usually have to coordinate the frequency/stiffness of the springs to the rigidity of the chassis it makes sense why I and others like McMahon were using .18's. I think the downfall is that on high bite (black groove sticky) tracks especially tight course layouts the flexible chassis loses corner speed to the stiffer one and want to traction roll more often. Contrary to what most people say I find it harder to take traction out and still have a well balanced good driving car that has corner speed than to put traction in and have all of that. I think we less experienced racers (compared to the top 10) forget that it's not just enough for the car to be easy to drive and to turn into a corner but that it MUST have corner speed THROUGH the corner AND be efficient. I wonder if mod places more of a premium on this than stock where you seem to run up to the corner and turn and as long as the car turns well you're good it seems. I think Dave S said that he gained more of an appreciation for what it really takes to run mod 12th and make it look easy. I would be interested in him or others elaborating on this subject and any others they think of. Good to see you Rob and thanks for the T-bar info especially since he said he can do the graphite with a slot. This type of t-bar will really last and give greater consistency and I need to e-m so that we can set something up. To everyone out there let's take advantage of this info Rob gave us because in case you didn't know this is something that a lot of the top guys do themselves. When you find a t-bar that really locks your car in it is nice to have more of them for when they wear out which can usually be seen I have found out in the last year by the "stress" marks (light areas especially around the "T" part that bolts to the pod. Also, different thicknesses of T-bar I have re-learned are a major source of tuning to help turn-in, corner speed, and traction roll at big races and many will normally run something on the order of an .078-.080 for a t-bar where as normally at home they may run a .073-.074. Is there a real difference you may wonder? Take a .073 and compare it's rigidity with a .075 and let me know what you guys think maybe even try them back to back. Boy, Indy is next week, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I still have to get tires, batteries and another Parma body for painting. Then 10 days after that the Carpet Nats in Cali, oh boy, oh boy, oh really big boy.
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Old 02-26-2002, 01:20 PM   #634
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dave,
I will have to do some testing again with the caps. For some reason all my caps now are 16V 480micro farad GOLD striped ones. This is only if you want to get really picky with your punch. You can alter the throttle curve and power delivery by altering the amount of voltage and capacity of the cap. In offroad and onroad I HATE punch it is less efficient and can cost you if you goose it and spin or goose it and miss your jump timing. So, in my book at least smoother is better. I have noticed that the 16v gold stripe caps have a consistent smooth power delivery, whereas the ones that come with the C2 and TC2 are somewhat jumpy(mine were 10v) and they also made me slower because it completely changed the characteristics of my run. The car would get up to about 1/4 throttle and then pitch sideways because the cap would be in the middle of its dumping process. For some reason the 16v caps seem to be more linear in their power. As for using the 480 farad cap, Again, in keeping with smoothness, I prefer to run a smaller cap rather than no cap just for runtime purposes. I have found that using the smaller size cap is more efficient. This is the only analogy that I can use to explain for the guys that dont follow. It has been my experience that a smaller glass of water will fill faster and empty quicker and smoother than a large glass of water, you also dont need that much water in the glass for what we are doing. I also tried out a 10K micro farad cap and that was ridiculous, the car had so much punch you could barely keep it on the track. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have found that the magic cap size for the Cyclone at least is 480micro farad and 16v(gold stripe)
Should I get into LRP products(I already have 2 v7.1's for my offroad cars just havent strapped em in yet)I will have to do this all over again. Using the LRP stuff is like having a string attached to the throttle on your car, I have never experienced a throttle that is so smooth and easy to get a "feel" for, that is why I am switching over. Novak products have been good to me but they arent helping me go any faster.
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Old 02-26-2002, 01:35 PM   #635
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hey dave, check out this request.
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Old 02-26-2002, 02:10 PM   #636
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Quote:
Originally posted by darnold
Hey Rob and Jonny what's up?

Socko now it makes sense why people have been able to run .22's. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me because I couldn't get enough steering and none of the Fast guys seem to run anything but .20's except for McMahon who typically runs .18's and Jeff Brown typically runs .22's. Everyone else seems stuck on .20's normally and with the info you just provided I think I understnd why now.

The motors that everyone typically uses on the "national circuit" are 10-8 turns so maybe the cars are just too fast to get steering with those motors.

Rob and I also found out recently that a thick chassis plate like the new Trinity car has or like the old LS had will give more steering with .20's than the more flexible L3 and 6 Pack chassis. As a result since you usually have to coordinate the frequency/stiffness of the springs to the rigidity of the chassis it makes sense why I and others like McMahon were using .18's.

I think the downfall is that on high bite (black groove sticky) tracks especially tight course layouts the flexible chassis loses corner speed to the stiffer one and want to traction roll more often.

Contrary to what most people say I find it harder to take traction out and still have a well balanced good driving car that has corner speed than to put traction in and have all of that. I think we less experienced racers (compared to the top 10) forget that it's not just enough for the car to be easy to drive and to turn into a corner but that it MUST have corner speed THROUGH the corner AND be efficient.

I wonder if mod places more of a premium on this than stock where you seem to run up to the corner and turn and as long as the car turns well you're good it seems. I think Dave S said that he gained more of an appreciation for what it really takes to run mod 12th and make it look easy.

I would be interested in him or others elaborating on this subject and any others they think of. Good to see you Rob and thanks for the T-bar info especially since he said he can do the graphite with a slot. This type of t-bar will really last and give greater consistency and I need to e-m so that we can set something up. To everyone out there let's take advantage of this info Rob gave us because in case you didn't know this is something that a lot of the top guys do themselves.

When you find a t-bar that really locks your car in it is nice to have more of them for when they wear out which can usually be seen I have found out in the last year by the "stress" marks (light areas especially around the "T" part that bolts to the pod.

Also, different thicknesses of T-bar I have re-learned are a major source of tuning to help turn-in, corner speed, and traction roll at big races and many will normally run something on the order of an .078-.080 for a t-bar where as normally at home they may run a .073-.074. Is there a real difference you may wonder?

Take a .073 and compare it's rigidity with a .075 and let me know what you guys think maybe even try them back to back. Boy, Indy is next week, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I still have to get tires, batteries and another Parma body for painting. Then 10 days after that the Carpet Nats in Cali, oh boy, oh boy, oh really big boy.
Sorry darnold i had to do this so i can read your post. It hard to read with no braeks.
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Old 02-26-2002, 03:05 PM   #637
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Foams- Thanks I'm about to look it over. Do you think you can get an idea on the LRP caps by their size/weight? They are pretty heavy compared to Novak stuff and I think they actually had some gold color on the leads. Like I said earlier though they are painted blue and so it's hard to tell exactly. I am going to call Associated in the next couple of minutes to let them know about the speedo issue and heck, maybe Sean Cochran can bring a replacement with him to Indy if he is coming? To be honest he has a lot better things to do with his time so I wouldn't expect it. Just sort of a "wish". I probably will not be sending it in until next week around the Indy Race anyway so we will see. Associated is really a great company so I am sure things will run smoothly.
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Old 02-26-2002, 03:34 PM   #638
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Isnt Billy Easton the LRP guy for the states? Maybe he knows whats up with the cap size and voltage. I just ended up going to my local electronics supply company and they have huge bins full of caps and I sort through them and pick the best one.

The guy from Windtunnel said that he can do it out of carbon fiber but only in .080 thickness. I asked Josh about this and he hasnt responded yet but I will let you know what he says. My fear is that with the added rigidity of the carbon it will make the T-Bar much stiffer.
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Old 02-26-2002, 03:56 PM   #639
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Just talked to Associated. Brad was really helpful and Billy was next to him so I asked him to tell him I said hellow to which Billy said hey. I think Billy would know the values but since LRP has painted them I am not sure they want those values disclosed. Brad told me that the Lifetime Warranty was only through the European Arm so I am going to e-m LRP to find out the scoop and see if that will retro over here anytime soon. One nice thing Brad said is that the aver cost of repair through Assoc. only runs $15-$30. He also told me to try re-programming the ESC and then check my run time and to also after that try a new rx pack both of which I had been thinking myself of trying. It looks good that the ESC still functions correctly and I think/Hope that the re-programming is the ticket. I think it happened Saturday with that one run of stock because I was perplexed as to why my batteries were so hot and I had no runtime left in them when I was done! So the LRP Quantum may not be damaged after all I will see on Thurs. LORD will when I go practice again.
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:09 PM   #640
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*****crosses fingers and hopes that it is just a bad receiver pack******* and what is this Europeans only get the lifetime warranty crap??????Sheesh they should only sell them to the guys from Europe then.
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:24 PM   #641
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Foams- Just sent an e-m about 5min or so ago to LRP to ask about that issue. We will see. I noticed that you mentioned "...hope it's the rx pack..". You seem to have a background in electronics so what do you think it may be? Do you think that the ESC moved out of it's program and that resetting it will help or do you think it's more of the rx pack and if so why? I really do think the LRP's are awesome and my friend Sagie who is here from Japan working told me last night that the LRP's are even more popular and liked in Japan than the Keyance. He also told me about some new ESC called a Dennon or something that is about 60% the size of the Quantum and that in Japan it is gaining a rep for runtime (speed also).
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:32 PM   #642
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Dave,
You said that it happened on Saturday right? But you ran last night. Does that mean that it was just the one time? It could have been something as simple as when you ran the stock motor it put to much resistance into the speedo and it got hot and re-set itself. It could be the RX pack didnt take a charge or maybe one of the cells died in that and that cause a big enough voltage dump for the ESC to reset. There are alot of things that it could be to be honest with you. If I were in your situation I would put a new receiver pack in make sure your batts take a "normal" charge, turn a motor that you run with all the time, and go out and see what happens. Also, it never hurts to slap a heatsink on an ESC Just In Case right? hehehehe the biggest thing here is did you change anything when the speedo died? Yes, you changed the motor and you also went to a larger capacitor, so go back to your original settings and see what happens. get everything back to the way it was before it all went south and see what ya come up with. Hope this helps alittle bit.
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:53 PM   #643
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Foams- Thanks for the info. Actually for clarification sake I ran it once in stock on Saturday and then one time on Sat. in between rounds with my mod. I noticed after the stock run that the main packs were really hot but didn't think too much of it because I had to drive strapped due to the packs being the Powers which work pretty well in 12th mod but not in stock. I also remember going "hmmm" when I ran the one mod run later that Saturday in between rounds because I dumped around around 6.5-6.45 min mark when I expected to make it to the 7.5min mark before going soft with my 8turn. I went out and practiced last night from 6-10pm and in every run I dumped (got really soft) around 6.5min and ran for another 30-45 sec. slow. My rx pack takes it normal charge peaking off at it normal voltage range of 9.5v (it's a 5 cell pk) and the batteries weren't hot. My ESC temp went from the 75degrees I remember it feeling when I first got it to about 85deg. Warmer but not "Hot" nor "Too Hot To Touch" feeling, just noticably warmer. The thought of rx pack being bad came to mind and Jucha and switched off the rx pk and switched on the normal ESC power and it ran the same...dumped. I will re-set it and see what it does and then I will put a new rx pk in just in case especially since Indy and the Nats are up. Hopefully this sheds a more complete picture. I agree with you that maybe the heat from running a stock strapped in punch mode 3 was too much (should have been in punch mode 5 for stock) and maybe it re-set itself.
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:58 PM   #644
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Evening all...wow, ya'll have been busy today..took awhile to read everything........I'm running a Tekin G12C111...its a little on the big side for 1/12, but it hasnt missed a lick....I've used Novaks since the T-4....i have a Cyclone in my TC.....I want to get an Atom for my 1/12.....also a smaller RX......Didnt get to race this weekend...but i was "thinking" about racing .........

Socko.....I'm gonna put my 11 double in soon...may be after you've moved though....
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Old 02-26-2002, 06:14 PM   #645
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Dave I know that the problem is.......last weekend you did not notice but I droped a 6 turn arm in your P94 can. Thats why you cant make 7 minutes. Maybe you need to get a new ESC.....I have an old Parma wiper SC you can run in the mean time....hehehe


No I know what it is now your car got Jugga fied when you let Jugghead race it in that one qualifier thats where the problem lies. You need to sell off all you RC equiptment and get out of the hobby for one year so the Jugg's curse will run its course. And you need to burn a Losi car at his feet next time you see him.....and only refer to yourself in the 3rd person.

Hope this helps

Now back to fighting internet crime...............
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