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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 01-15-2004, 12:21 AM   #6091
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Has anyone tried the inline steerig block from the Rc10L3O on a 12th scale ???
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Old 01-15-2004, 03:59 AM   #6092
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Anyone running the old school front end on the
quad12? if so, can you PM, or email, or post pics and good general starting setup for 19t on a med-high bite tight (40x80 new ozite) carpet track?

Thanks,
Barry

Last edited by BarryH; 01-15-2004 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:04 AM   #6093
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BarryH-- I have done some testing with the old skool front and this is what I came up with.

Front:

.020 springs w/Trinity red stuff on the king pins and 1 degree of caster

Rear:

Spring steel T plate
Blue spring w/30wt oil in the shock
Corally Blue in the tubes

Purple and Grey tires and a CEFX body. The CEFX body gives the car a lot of steering so if you want less go to a Parma speed 8.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:36 AM   #6094
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I am also running the old skool front end on my Quad 12.

Servo shoe gooed flat to the chassis and pushed forward with ball stud in the back of the servo saver.
.020 front springs with 5000wt diff oil on kimg pins
0.5 degree toe out, camber set so tire wear flat
T.M. Purple or Cyan, or Magenta front tires

In my CRC tubes, I am currently playing between Mugen 5000wt diff oil and Corally Red Stuff (which I find very stiff).
Adam the blue stuff must make it super stiff
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:48 AM   #6095
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Default Re: My .02 mfds

Quote:
Originally posted by David Root
I found some 16v 4700 Mfd High impedence caps from a distributor on the net. I think it was Digikey. They are the right ones.



If you want to see what a cap does, just hook it up to a battery for a second or two. NOW touch the cap leads together. You will get a spark, and a pretty big one at that. It is releasing its stored energy all at once. This is what it does when you open the throttle part way. The FETs turn on and off. At off time, the cap is charging. When ON, the cap discharges and gives a little more to the motor, or esc because the cap is hooked to the battery side of the ESC. This is also why you need High Impedence, to keep up with the high switching speed of new ESCs.


David Root
Going to Fountain Raceway Friday night for 1/12 Raod course
EEEeeeHhaaa!!

OKAY, David, very good description of what goes on with the capacitor. Now a question for you related to the above quote.

1) How about a 35V 1000Mfd cap from RadioShack? Is there anything special about the device from Digikey?

2) If you do not throttle your car such that you get back to neutral throttle, does the capacitor recharge and help the motor supply extra punch? In other words, do you need to throttle your car such that you return to neutal frequently so that the capacitor can recharge.

3) Will battery run time be reduced when using the capacitor?

4) Why is high impedance required to work in a high speed circuit?
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:55 AM   #6096
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Hartzell
Bodido--The pivot balls should move freely with little or no force. As far as the damper tubes go ditch the springs. I run a Quad 12 but all the RugRats I have seen don't use the springs.
I disagree with Adam on this one. Sorry, but I have run the Rugrat with the spings on the dampners to handle the tweak of the chassis and provide return to chassis neutral after a turn. It works! This could be a valuable tuning option for you when the track surfaces are on the extreme side. Some have tried tweaking with both the t-plate screws and the springs with success. Good racing to you.
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:02 AM   #6097
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About capacitors, please read the following topic from start to finish with some though and you might get a hang of the physics behind the power caps:
Esc Capacitors
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:58 AM   #6098
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davidl.... Thanks for the input.

BTW.... We met at Tltyard during Mod Nats. I was the guy pulling my esc out of my carpet knife. I was one of the region 2 campers. And I had to paint my wing cuz of you!!! HAHAHA.

I haven't run the car yet, but will Saturday. I was thinking of running side springs just because I currently have only a .060 t-bar. I figured I might need to have stiffer side to side action than the t-bar could provide. Any input?

Also, since you have experience with this could you give me a quick comparison of the two AE t-bars to the Silva spring steel one (or is there more than one?).

Thanks again.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:46 AM   #6099
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Bodido,

I have run both the thick T bar, and the spring steel.

The fiberglass bars will fatigue, and get a " soft spot " in them.

The steel bars are great, they have the same , if not stiffer side to side flex, which helps steering, and a little softer front to rear flex, which keeps the back of the car down over the bumps, and ripples.
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:24 PM   #6100
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Bodido, Chad is that you? Hit me up sennafan@wideopenwest.com. Holla!
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Old 01-15-2004, 03:38 PM   #6101
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Quote:
Originally posted by JesseT
About capacitors, please read the following topic from start to finish with some though and you might get a hang of the physics behind the power caps:
Esc Capacitors
I read the suggested thread today and found some of the answers to my questions. I am still vague on questions 2 and 3. I didn't feel the thread answered question 4, but I will take the word of the thread that the low impedance capacitor was the correct one for high speed circuits. Could it be the best choice for something else such as circuit resistance through the loop of the battery motor and speedo? I think that is it.

Anyway, thanks to Jesse T for the insight. I thought you did an excellent job on the thread of digging into the issue.
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Old 01-15-2004, 04:00 PM   #6102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bodido
davidl.... Thanks for the input.

I haven't run the car yet, but will Saturday. I was thinking of running side springs just because I currently have only a .060 t-bar. I figured I might need to have stiffer side to side action than the t-bar could provide. Any input?

Also, since you have experience with this could you give me a quick comparison of the two AE t-bars to the Silva spring steel one (or is there more than one?).

Thanks again.

Bodido - You can put the parts you have to good use. Go ahead and tweek the car with that .062 t-plate and add the white springs to the dampners. Also, you should try some stiffer center springs to make up for the softness of the t-plate. Match that to the track surface where you may have some bumps or it may be smooth, or you have carpet that is inherently slick. You will have to decide that part on your own. But the good news is that you have an assortment of springs and oil to try.

Now the t-plate comparison topic which is very popular. I disagree with Casey in that each t-plate has it's own characteristics and is good for a particular application. The fiberglass t-plates have a dampening characteristic that the spring steel t-plate doesn't have. I suggest the fiberglass on bumpy tracks because you don't have to depend on the center shock to do all of the dampening. And you can adjust the degree of each based on whether you use 2 or 3 screws to mount to motor pod to the t-plate. The spring steel t-plate might have too much rebound in its natural frequency to use on a bumpy track because you might end up making the center shock too stiff. The side to side stiffness differs between the three so you can use the spings to give more options as stated in the paragraph above.

So, if you have a tremendously bumpy track, you can use the .062 fiberglass t-plate with a good center shock and spring combination that will let the rear of the car settle in for forward bite. Then you can use the springs on the dampners to adjust the response of the car to fit the characteristics of the layout.

Most important thing ------Tires. You have to be using the right tires before any of this makes a difference. And there are different tires available for these applications. Also, the different suppliers products have different characteristics, too. Good luck and good racing.
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Old 01-15-2004, 04:43 PM   #6103
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidl
Now the t-plate comparison topic which is very popular. I disagree with Casey in that each t-plate has it's own characteristics and is good for a particular application. The fiberglass t-plates have a dampening characteristic that the spring steel t-plate doesn't have. I suggest the fiberglass on bumpy tracks because you don't have to depend on the center shock to do all of the dampening. And you can adjust the degree of each based on whether you use 2 or 3 screws to mount to motor pod to the t-plate. The spring steel t-plate might have too much rebound in its natural frequency to use on a bumpy track because you might end up making the center shock too stiff. The side to side stiffness differs between the three so you can use the spings to give more options as stated in the paragraph above.
davidl - I disagree when you say that the spring steel t-plate might have too much rebound in its natural frequency to use on a bumpy track. I think the Silva spring steel t-plate destroys the fiberglass t-plats on bumpy tracks. Any inherent rebound dampening qualities of the different t-plate materials can be completely controlled by the center shock and damper tubes. I think tuning ability is greatly simplified and improved be decoupling the increased dampening (compared to spring steel) of the fiberglass material and the shock/tube dampening. On average, I run 10 wt higher in the center shock with the spring steel t-plate but fine tuning the dampening still depends on the track.

The spring steel t-plate does what fiberglass t-plates can't do. It combines the roll stiffness of a .075 t-plate with the forward compression stiffness of a .063 t-plate... with much, much, much more longevity and consistency. I have found on carpet that my car handles better and is quicker with the spring steel t-plate. It's kind of like running a .075 fiberglass t-plate that is good over the bumps and doesn't wear out after 1 or 2 weeks.

I do agree that each t-plate has its own characteristics and is good for a particular application, but I think right now the spring steel t-plate will work better then fiberglass t-plates in most applications.
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Old 01-15-2004, 04:48 PM   #6104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike D
davidl - I disagree when you say that the spring steel t-plate might have too much rebound in its natural frequency to use on a bumpy track. I think the Silva spring steel t-plate destroys the fiberglass t-plats on bumpy tracks. Any inherent rebound dampening qualities of the different t-plate materials can be completely controlled by the center shock and damper tubes. I think tuning ability is greatly simplified and improved be decoupling the increased dampening (compared to spring steel) of the fiberglass material and the shock/tube dampening. On average, I run 10 wt higher in the center shock with the spring steel t-plate but fine tuning the dampening still depends on the track.

The spring steel t-plate does what fiberglass t-plates can't do. It combines the roll stiffness of a .075 t-plate with the forward compression stiffness of a .063 t-plate... with much, much, much more longevity and consistency. I have found on carpet that my car handles better and is quicker with the spring steel t-plate. It's kind of like running a .075 fiberglass t-plate that is good over the bumps and doesn't wear out after 1 or 2 weeks.

I do agree that each t-plate has its own characteristics and is good for a particular application, but I think right now the spring steel t-plate will work better then fiberglass t-plates in most applications.
Hey Mike,

Where can I get my hands on one of those Silva T-plate for my RC12L3? BTW, you going up to RC madness this weekend for the January Jam?

Later,
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:15 PM   #6105
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCB
Hey Mike,

Where can I get my hands on one of those Silva T-plate for my RC12L3? BTW, you going up to RC madness this weekend for the January Jam?

Later,
Silva distributes his products through IRS. You can get the Silva t-plate from anybody that sells IRS - hobby store, online, IRS website, etc.

Unfortunatly I won't be able to make the January Jam... I might make it up to the South Shore race. Not sure though...
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