R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-2002, 07:45 PM   #526
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

BTW put a zero in front of the shim sizes for the ball studs at the front suspension.
Next: I run 1 metal washer from the kit under the front arms with 1.74" fronts down to 1.65" fronts. This car seems to have better clearance than my previous car so you don't need big tires and that helps on high bite tracks. I run the #1 cam down with 1.90" rears and if you run 1.95" rears or higher then try the #2 down. The main thing is to keep the chassis level and get it as close to 3mm and keep it around there as possible. I am just now starting to concentrate on this and it is paying dividends.
Back at the rear of the car make sure you space the rear out to maximum length (ROAR rules) which I think is 6 3/4" this really makes the rear stable. To do this I put .201" spacer on the diff side and with the clamp mounted so that the thin side faces the axle cam I use a .227" washer on that side (left side looking from the back). I use 30wght. oil instead of the 20wght I got in the kit and a blue Assoc spring with light tension (about .150" of thread showing) and a .030" washer under the ball stud on top of the damper plate for the top of the shock (to smooth the reaction from the shock out a little).
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 07:56 PM   #527
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 315
Default

thanx darnold I am sure that your setup will all make sense when I have the car in front of me. That pretty much flew over my head. I am just going to cut and paste a few of your posts so that I can have them in a hard copy format!!!!!!!!!! I also looked back through the posts and found your gearing help so that is on my CLIPBOARD as well. Thanx for all the great tech help on this. Just two points of clarification, the damper tube in the rear is the shock right? And you said red damper stuff in the pivot balls on the front does that mean just a little in the cup so that it lubes the pivot ball? Hope you understand my questions. thanx again,
IKE
FoamDonuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 07:58 PM   #528
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Final stuff- I mount the servo on the chassis (Jr 3550z) and the balls stick out behind the servo towards the back so I have to use the top holes. To get rid of a lot of the bump steer I had to put .060" of spacers underneath the ball studs in the steering blocks. This doesn't allow for enough room to put the little lock nut on the stud but the steering blk material seems really healthy. Anyway I would check it a couple times each race day just in case. BTW keep a careful eye on the screws and the lock nuts for the ball studs because they may work themselves loose initially but after tightening them several times they seem to stay, but I still check them before every run. DO NOT USE Threadlock in the alluminum pieces (rear blocks) but follow the directions advise and use some of the grease they give you to ease the thread in process. I do use the Quantum with the small cap and I have not seen others go up in smoke even in Foam TC Mod although I have read on this site of it happening. I don't use the heatsink either although every TC car of the Big Boys that I have seen had it on theirs. I mount my transponder holder to the chassis opposit the speedo and the rx is right behind the servo with a rx pack on the left side of the servo to balance things out. An rx pack gives about 15sec extra runtime and more importantly keeps the voltage up in the main batteries beter. Also cut down the rollover antena some to help the car corner a little better. Let me know how it goes and any other questions you may have. BTW a Ti double what? I gear my 10's at 25/100 , my 9's at 24/100 and my newly aquired 8 at 21/100 (1.85" rears, go down a tooth for every .05" taller in the rear tire and vice versa)-Dave A.
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 08:02 PM   #529
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 315
Default

Dave, do you have the ability to take a few pics of your car? I would really love to see it from a few different angles so I can get the gist of your layout. THanx again.
IKE
FoamDonuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 08:28 PM   #530
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Foams- sorry about the technicality of the posts I understand because I am just starting to understand some of this stuff since I have been back racing for the past 3yrs after being out for almost a decade. It's just that many people don't realize that the settings are only 1/2 the picture and that you need the build out of the car as well. You see with the Trinity front end by raising and lowering the height of the ball studs that the front suspesion linkage mounts to you raise and lower the roll center and the same is true even more so I think with the spacing of the steering block between the top and bottom arms on the kingpin. With rc cars in general and especially 1/12th scale because the cg is down at the ground (F1 is like this) then the lower the roll center the quicker the car will react and the more grip into the corner the car will have. Too much of this and the car will traction roll on high bite surfaces and be really "twitchy" (although twitchy is a relative term). To high and the car doesn't want to steer or react to your inputs. I also dope the entire front tires for more consistency so that I am not relying on the tracks traction in every turn and part as much. So that's why you have the sizes of the washers and where I have put them. They make a noticeable difference in how the car handles and how much corner speed it has. I am still experimenting some to see if I can find a little faster setup but I like this one the best so far. My radio steering setup is: 85% Dual Rate with 55% individual end points and NO exponential.
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 08:53 PM   #531
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

oh- I almost forgot that you need to take a dremel and round off the front top suspension arm like the instructions tell you to do or the front tires hit the top suspesion are and lock up which kills corner speed and makes the car act a little funny. If you need a larger picture of the car check out the thread below and click on "news" and they have an 02 Trinity that you can click on and see a big picture. BTW the damper tubes I am referring to are the plastic side tubes that mount on the cross brace and go across the car just in front of the rear pod, not the center shock. Trinity Red stuff is a type of medium thick grease that they sell and it seems to hold up for a while. Lube the inside of the pivot balls and damper tubes well. Here's the site address: www.twelfth.circuit.btinternet.co.uk
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 09:48 PM   #532
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 315
Default

dave,
I think I follow you now on the red stuff, you just coat the pivot balls and the tubes you arent actually filling anything up with the red stuff. I was under the impression that you were filling the tubes like you would with a shock. THanx again,
IKE
FoamDonuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:02 PM   #533
Tech Elite
 
Rick Vessell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mars
Posts: 2,239
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Dave,

.022 springs it is. If I dope too much tire the car gets twitchy. I normally dope between 1/2 and 3/4. 3/4 is too much and 1/2 is for only when the bite is really up. I have a 9 turn Ti that I plan on running. I ran the Furys in my TC and really liked them plus, I know Sean so I can always get motor help if I'm really stumped. Won't be up to Indy before the race unfortunately. I'm moving my wife and all our stuff the weekend before and I don't officially relocate until the middle of March. Yeah, that's right, I move her home, come back to Dallas, get ready, and then come right back up there the next weekend! Whew! I must be crazy!

Is Jucha coming too? What about James Arnold?
__________________
Futaba, O.S. Engines, Tornado Fuel, Schumacher Racing, SpeedPassion USA, Eggroll Inc., Desoto Racing, Vesselli Racing
Rick Vessell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:06 PM   #534
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Foams I don't have a digi camera but my buddy Robk does and maybe this weekend I can take a couple sets of pics and post them. I may also be able to draw some of the points out in ms draw and post those.-Dave
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:14 PM   #535
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Sako- Sounds like a LOT of work. James is planning on being there along with Jucha. I am planning on getting a 9 turn soon. My 10's have been faster lately due to the r&d with integy. I just got a hold of an 8turn and it rocks! I think this Sunday Rob King and I are going up to Grand Rapids to race. Jeff Brown is suppose to race and if Walt Henderson runs his 12th mod then the 3 of us get to race our own heat! Rob I think will be running TC up there. Yeah, I need a fast 9turn and Integy is supposed to be sending me some arms to test but that was a couple of weeks ago and still no 9 turn arms. Have you tried a P94 yet?
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:24 PM   #536
Tech Regular
 
Dragon Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: tx
Posts: 358
Send a message via Yahoo to Dragon Slayer
Default

Socko...all i have is an 11 double D4.......Lightspeed.Talked to Pileup..hes wanting to try it also....should be interesting getting gearing correct so we dont dump

I want to throw my set up out here..just to see what ya'll think.....RC12LW...yes..LW.....Purple fr./Pink rr..........020 fr. spring......no lube on king pin.....one white spacer each side upper arm /new style front end....1/8 ride height fr. and rr.(prolly tooo low,my car is black on chassis and sticky)kit shock(delta) 30 oil...kit spring.....063 t-bar........3 drops green slime on upper disc.......paragon fx2 on front and rear...full width on both.....car is dialed......i've read different set ups and mine seems soft...but i can put the car anywhere...very neutral....P-35 body
Dragon Slayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:34 PM   #537
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Hey Dragon S- Sounds good if you are racing on asphalt, huh, are you? By the black sticky stuff on you chassis it makes me think however that you may be on carpet, I'm not sure. If you are on carpet than you setup is easy to drive but very slow in the corners compared to what it could be (but you may still be faster than everyone else there). Unless the carpet is really bad or very few people run there so that the grip is down (you can't see any black groove in the corners) then you should use gray rears at least. The .020's sound good and you are running 2deg caster if I'm not mistaken and with the 10deg block (angled down blks) you go down to 0deg caster in the corners. The roll center on that front end is already high so nothing to do there. Try going to 4deg caster and rase your ride height to .120" (just over 3mm). Also, how much front tire are you doping and for how long do you let your dope sit on the tires?
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 10:56 PM   #538
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

dragon s- my bad, I just noticed the full width of the fronts. If you also put a thick t-bar on it along with the other stuff I just posted and check your lap times you should notice lower times. BTW .120" = 1/4" and from the sounds of it your car is way low, below legal since 3mm (1/4") is legal. Your car should also be costing you runtime in comparison to what you could have. Just raise it up some all around, put the grays on, try a little more caster to keep it calm and help it respond to your inputs (initiate) especially in high speed corners (sweepers, carosels,etc.), put the thick T-bar on to help it turn still and put some green stuff on the kingpins to make the front even smoother than you already have it. Here's a little story that happened last week. Another race just bought the 02Trinity and he came out with a 19t and we practiced together. He built it toatally stock and did a good job, plus the car is awesome anyway right out of the box. The only differences where my Assoc .020 front springs which = .022 in Trinity and my thick T-bar to the stock thin one in the kit (.064"). He tried to follow me into the corners but couldn't understand why there was this drastic differnce in our corner speed even with his batteries moved forward. Gues what it was? Yep, the thin t-bar. I drove his car and it FELT Great and if you didn't know better (or in his case see better) you would never have known how much corner speed was missing. It can be very hard to detect .1sec here or there but if you get a couple or few of those consistent per lap it = 1,2,3 laps and the lines can be the exact same! Hope this helps bro.-dave
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2002, 04:05 AM   #539
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by darnold
BTW .120" = 1/4" and from the sounds of it your car is way low, below legal since 3mm (1/4") is legal.

Hmm... someone's math is a bit off...
1/8" = .125"
1/4" = .250"
3mm = .118"

Trips
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2002, 12:49 PM   #540
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Trips- You're right, thanks. Actually I thought it didn't look right when I posted. I didn't convert it mathematically, I had a ruler right next to me and since I had my callipers out doing some other stuff I just compared the calli's to the ruler. Must have mis-read the markings on the ruler. Next time I think good ole' fashioned math is in order.

Dragon S- That shows even more that your car is too soft so keep the 1/8" ride height (axle cams and washers as they are) but do all of the other stuff and compare your lap times. If the car steers too much then lessen the amount of dope on the fronts to about 1/2 and try it then.
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:18 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0