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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 10-23-2003, 08:24 PM   #4546
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Default Re: Besides size difference 1/10 and 1/12

Quote:
Originally posted by imjonah
I am a little confused about 1/12 size cars.

1. Are 1/12 just slightly smaller versions of 1/10?

2. When I look at the RC Magazines and RC catalogs, I see almost entierly 1/10 cars with small asortment of 1/8 off road and minis. There does not seem to me to be very many 1/12 size cars or many 1/12 discussion or articles.

but
3. when I look at Race Results I always see 1/12 class listed.

It seems like a popular class to race but see very few cars or acesories for sale.
12th scale pan cars are the original and purist form of electric racing in my opinion. Most of your 12th scale chassis's are quite simple compaired to a nitro or electric 1/8 or 1/10 scale car, so thiers not as many aftermarket parts needed. All standard electrics work in them. It is a very competitive and fun class to race! If you can get up to the Westminister HobbyTown on a Wednesday night or Sunday afternoon you can watch em' run most of the racers are very friendly!
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:22 AM   #4547
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Radio question for you guys...

Raced my 1/12th scale last night on a small carpet track (very tight racing)
The owner of the track kept telling me to turn up my dual rate (also known as exponential right?) - Did just that and I felt that the car got ultra-twitchy, is this how most of you drive your 1/12th scale cars? I drove another guys car and I could barely make 2 corners in a row with it...

Thanks in advance...
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:09 AM   #4548
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I normally drive with around 60% dual rate (however my EPA's are both turned up to 150% and then adjsuted from there, so its probably more dual rate in actuality than 60). I have an m8 radio btw...

As far as feeling ultra twitchy, it could be you might want to run more mechanical grip than steering throw, or maybe the otherway around. What car and whats the set up? since its hard to make suggestions otherwise.
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:24 AM   #4549
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Car: CRC Carpet Knife 3.1
Radio: Futaba 3PJS
Tires: Purple / Grays
Front Blocks: Angled
Springs: White
Caster/Camber: default
Center Spring: Silver, unknown oil
Side Dampers: unknown

Does that help with suggestions?
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:56 AM   #4550
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Quote:
Originally posted by TigeRyan
Radio question for you guys...

Raced my 1/12th scale last night on a small carpet track (very tight racing)
The owner of the track kept telling me to turn up my dual rate (also known as exponential right?) - Did just that and I felt that the car got ultra-twitchy, is this how most of you drive your 1/12th scale cars? I drove another guys car and I could barely make 2 corners in a row with it...

Thanks in advance...
No, dual rate is how much the wheels turn, for example if you set the dual rate at 10% you couldn't turn the car in a barn and 100% would turn in a two foot circle, not real numbers just an example.

Exponential is the sloop of the turning versus input. In other words if you run a lot of exponential the first few degrees of wheel movement (on the radio) would turn the car very little but the last few degrees would turn it a lot. The total amount would be the same. People use exponential to get rid of twitchy ness on the straight away. About 10 to 15 should be max but most people I know don't use any with on-road cars because the steering is not linear with it...............sorry this isn't very clear. Do you get it?

Ted
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Old 10-25-2003, 09:51 AM   #4551
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Quote:
Originally posted by TigeRyan
Car: CRC Carpet Knife 3.1
Radio: Futaba 3PJS
Tires: Purple / Grays
Front Blocks: Angled
Springs: White
Caster/Camber: default
Center Spring: Silver, unknown oil
Side Dampers: unknown

Does that help with suggestions?
OK you seem like you should be close, but how's about your clear up them "unknowns"

Caster- set it at 1 deg. -built at stock settins the associated guide has you around 2 deg.

center shock- rebuild it with 35 weight oil, if you got the car used go ahead and get yourself a rebuild kit and replace the plastic parts and o-rings

Side dampers- Losi medium hydro fluid or Associated diff lube... you decide which works best for you!

Dual rate- set it so you have just a lkittle more than what is needed for the sharppest turn on the track, any more and you will scrub alot of speed off!!
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Old 10-25-2003, 09:52 AM   #4552
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how much front sauce are you running? since thats huge, also what front springs?

however, from that description you probably are around where you should be (i would get a 17lb spring, either the CRC red or the Speedmerchant black and figure out what you are running for fluids, its huge set up wise).

I have been told by mulitple top 12th scale drivers that you dont want to run more than 5 degrees of expo. if you run more (and this is from my expeariance) it actually makes it more twichy, since if you want to move slighlty, its really hard since when you turn its nothing, nothing, nothing, then BAM it TURNS! lol

I do not know how good of a driver you are or how fast you are, however a fast car has a lot of steering that doesnt scrub speed. You want to be able to make most corners without having to let off more than just a blip, however not everyone can drive that way, since it requires alot of concentration.

Ways to take out the twichyness:
-Old style front end
-Stiffer front springs
-more castor (which is tough with a strut front end since the castor blocks are poorly made)
-higher front ride height
-less front sauce
-less dual rate
-less tension on the center spring
-slight amount of exo (try like 3%)
-Parma Bently Speed 8 instead of Ascari body (if you are running an ascari)


Really the best suggestion I can give you (Since i dont know exactly what the car is doing, someof the time if its twichy it could be a mechincal problem, not set up issue) is to find someone at that track who is really fast and ask them for help. I can try to diagnose the problem online and give suggestions, however it only goes so far.

Hopefully I was of some help...
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Old 10-25-2003, 12:12 PM   #4553
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Default Wire for 12th scale

I've heard some people say they use smaller wire for their 12th scale than 10th scale sedans. What guage should I use? I'm trying to fit a GT7 in my Quad12. I think I'm going to remove the inline diode and try to relocate it - any suggestions?

Thanks!!
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Old 10-25-2003, 02:28 PM   #4554
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Thanks guys, lots of fantastic information, I will go ahead and rebuild the center shock as recommended and the side dampeners....

I have CRC White springs up front on the car...

I am doing half front sause (Paragon) when I am running on the small track, maybe a little more then a quarter on the more flowing track I run on...Full rear tires...

And yes I did get the car used, so I am noting the setup as I work on various parts of the car, but the last two things above will get rid of all my unknowns on the car, so then I consider the car mine

Thanks again guys!!!
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Old 10-25-2003, 03:30 PM   #4555
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Stumper, Yeah when i wired my 12th up i did use smaller guage wire. Think it was 14awg, possibly 2.5mm. I usually use monster 12awg for my touring car.

You don't need monster mire for 12th as there is much less current flowing. For me this has a few advantages, lower wieght, greater flexibility with the power wires to the motor so less chance of stopping the rear pod moving, and more importantly a perfectly good oportunity to use up all that thinner wire that i have laying about
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Old 10-25-2003, 03:41 PM   #4556
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18 awg is fine
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Old 10-25-2003, 05:09 PM   #4557
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Hey Tiger, try this there is a setup here for the knife 3.1. http://www.teamcrc.com/teamcrc.cgi Just click on setups.
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:37 PM   #4558
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Default Re: Wire for 12th scale

Quote:
Originally posted by stumper1
I've heard some people say they use smaller wire for their 12th scale than 10th scale sedans. What guage should I use? I'm trying to fit a GT7 in my Quad12. I think I'm going to remove the inline diode and try to relocate it - any suggestions?

Thanks!!
D,
I use the GT7 in my Quad12 and I use the wire that came with it, but I did relocate the diode...to my parts box. It is tough enough to find room for the capacitor, much less that damn diode. Seems to work fine in stock, modified might be a different story.
A Novak tech told me on the phone to solder it to the motor. I don't think this guy ever raced 1/12 scale.

D.P.
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:56 PM   #4559
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Unless you want some flames and smoke to go with that nice orange case, I would suggest relocating to somewhere within the car (and prefebly soldered to a wire that is connected to the esc).

the reason why its a good idea to run a small guage wire on your 12th scale (at least for the motor wires) is because the wire will act as a spring and will really mess up your handling.
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Old 10-26-2003, 09:06 AM   #4560
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DPowell- If you do not want to void the warranty of 120 days that Novak has with there electronics, then I would suggest running it lol. Also that set aside, it was updated for a reason dont you think you should?... Who cares what it looks like. If you care that much remove the shrink wrap and mount it to the side of the case, with 2 zip ties. Either way you should run it.
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