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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 12-15-2014, 09:50 PM   #41806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadSign View Post
until now I only used the center shock tension to keep the center of the car off the ground. If I don't change the shock length, but add tensioning the spring, this will not only raise the center of the car, but also reduce the sag?
Yes. If you go to far, it will eliminate it and will make your car handle poorly.

I was told by Naoto's mechanic to run -0.2 to -0.5 mm of pod sag. This is controlled by the amount of spring tension. He told me, more sag less twitchy the car will be, to a point. So try and keep it at at the aforementioned range. I did however experience(by accident) +0.4 mm , the complete opposite. It was a handful to drive, the rear end was coming loose, and was impossible to get on the throttle. I knew something was wrong, checked the settings and found the pod had no sag. Makes a big difference in the way your car handles.

Pod droop is controlled by the amount of spring tension combined with the length of the center damper. I usually run 1.0 to 1.5 mm of pod droop.

Last edited by EDWARD2003; 12-15-2014 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:34 AM   #41807
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Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
Is your track clean? I race on an asphalt track which sometimes receives a small dusting of volcanic ash. It's impossible to get around the track without the rear end coming around. However, when the track is in good condition, and I encounter over steer I usually check my radio settings.

Try running -ve expo in the steering and throttle and reduce your EPA on the steering.

If that doesn't solve anything would also check and or change other settings.

Differential, camber, center damper spring, front springs, and sauce times.
I usually sauce the rears (paragon black can) for an hour. Then the front I sauce 10 minutes on the fronts and use white can for 2 minutes.
Thanks for the advice,

The track I run on isnt too dusty. The typical rubber tire and foam tire dust from other cars running on the track.

I'll also try the setting you suggested for the radio to help compensate for spinning out when exiting corners.

Saucing the tires an hour before a run might be a challenge as there isnt that much time in between runs to sauce my tires for that long.

I cant help but think its more of a setup problem rather than saucing times.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:53 AM   #41808
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Hi,
this rear pod sag thing is making me confused.
I always thought that adjusting the center spring tension is to modify the center ride height right?
So If I set this ride height to the desired value how can I change the pod sag without changing the center ride height?

Maybe someone could make a video to explain.
Sorry for this question but I try to understand.

Thanks

Claude
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:04 AM   #41809
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Hey Claude,

What I do when I am setting the pod is back the spring all the way off, then set the car on the 10mm TC droop blocks (on the main chassis, not the pod so it can drop) and let the pod settle. Then I use my ride height guage to set the drop (just what I call it, not really "droop") by sliding it under the rear of the pod and seeing where it touches. For example if it sits at 9mm then I know I have 1mm drop in the pod. To adjust it you actually need to change the length of the center shock and different models have different ways to do this, you'll have to refer to your manual to figure your model out. If you want to increase this (for bumpy tracks for example) you extend the shock. To decrease you shorten the shock.

Once you get that sorted out and where you want it, then set the car back down and use the spring to adjust the center droop. A lot of guys run the main chassis (from the front to the pod) at the same ride height level, then the pod slightly higher. Slide your ride height gauge along the main chassis and tighten the spring until it is the desired center ride height.

Hopefully this helps. If not let me know and I could try putting it on a video for you.

Luke
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:10 AM   #41810
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Hey Claude,

What I do when I am setting the pod is back the spring all the way off, then set the car on the 10mm TC droop blocks (on the main chassis, not the pod so it can drop) and let the pod settle. Then I use my ride height guage to set the drop (just what I call it, not really "droop") by sliding it under the rear of the pod and seeing where it touches. For example if it sits at 9mm then I know I have 1mm drop in the pod. To adjust it you actually need to change the length of the center shock and different models have different ways to do this, you'll have to refer to your manual to figure your model out. If you want to increase this (for bumpy tracks for example) you extend the shock. To decrease you shorten the shock.

Once you get that sorted out and where you want it, then set the car back down and use the spring to adjust the center droop. A lot of guys run the main chassis (from the front to the pod) at the same ride height level, then the pod slightly higher. Slide your ride height gauge along the main chassis and tighten the spring until it is the desired center ride height.

Hopefully this helps. If not let me know and I could try putting it on a video for you.

Luke
Nice writeup Luke.

I was taught to check pod drop (or droop) but setting the center ride height to the desired height (say 3mm) then pickup on the rear of the center shock until the rear tires are just touching the ground then re-measure the "ride height" (say 4.5mm) in the examples given you would have 1.5mm of pod drop.

The sag part is the piece I always struggled with but your explanation really helped. Thanks for that.

Chris
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:18 AM   #41811
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Pod droop - the amount that the chassis will move up until the centre shock stops it.

Pod sag - the amount the front of the pod plate is higher/lower than the back of the pod plate.

Pod droop - aim for 1.0 to 1.5 mm of droop depending on the amount of initial steering you want and how bumpy the track is. More steering and more bumpy = more droop. To check pod droop, put a ride height guide under the chassis by the rear of the cell and note the number. Lift the top pod plate by the ball joint of the centre shock until the shock is fully extended and no more. Push the ride height gauge under the chassis in the same place and take a reading. Subtract the first reading from the second, this is pod droop.

Pod sag - the difference in ride height between the back of the pod and the front. Measure both, adjust until the pod is level or the front of the pod is lower than the rear. As said above, if the front of the pod is higher than the rear the handling will be *ahem* difficult! Try level to front of pod lower and find what suits the track and grip you have. After a while you'll find a level of understanding of this setting that allows you to adjust it easily when you get onto the track - you'll know!

These are simple adjustments using common tools and attention to detail. It is not a precise science where you measure, as long as you precisely do it the same way on your car every time. Don't blindly follow other settings as you have no idea how they are measured - everyone does it slightly differently. Use the advice here, repeat your measurements accurately every time you adjust the car and know where your settings suit your driving. HTH
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:54 AM   #41812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpittman View Post

...then set the car back down and use the spring to adjust the center droop.

Luke

I believe you have your terminology mixed up. Spring preload controls sag. The length of the shock controls droop.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:59 AM   #41813
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Well, yes I suppose compared to how some reference them I do. However I've heard both be described as the other many times.

Personally, it makes more sense for the change that modifying the shock length does to be called droop. I picture it in terms of the TC. You raise the chassis until the tires leave the ground and this is what you call droop. So for a pan car you would lift at the spring until it stops (or until the tires leave the ground), so that would also be droop to me.

The amount the rear pod "drops" when you hold the car up would be the sag.

I guess it all depends on how you look at it, but the theory is still the same.

Cheers
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:13 PM   #41814
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Hi,
Thanks to all of You for the input.
But I'm not really there if I change the shock lenght I change the pod droop that's what I always did around 1-1.5 mm.
Changing spring pretension is adjusting center ride height.
So far so good but how to change the pod sag without changing the other settings?
Pod sag is the way the pod near the center travels down under it's own weight when the car is sitting on it's wheels race ready or am I wrong?

Claude
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:26 PM   #41815
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Double post sorry
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:56 PM   #41816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toroloco View Post
Hi,
Thanks to all of You for the input.
But I'm not really there if I change the shock lenght I change the pod droop that's what I always did around 1-1.5 mm.
Changing spring pretension is adjusting center ride height.
So far so good but how to change the pod sag without changing the other settings?
Pod sag is the way the pod near the center travels down under it's own weight when the car is sitting on it's wheels race ready or am I wrong?

Claude
You are right, don't worry. Pod sag is essentially the same thing as the droop over ride height measurement that is used with sedans. As such, if you change the center ride height (by adjusting center spring preload) then you will be changing pod sag. Same as with droop over ride height.

If you want to change pod sag but keep the same ride height, you will need to change the center shock length. This will increase pod droop, sure, but that is just a number
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:14 PM   #41817
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Originally Posted by LloydLoar View Post
You are right, don't worry. Pod sag is essentially the same thing as the droop over ride height measurement that is used with sedans. As such, if you change the center ride height (by adjusting center spring preload) then you will be changing pod sag. Same as with droop over ride height.

If you want to change pod sag but keep the same ride height, you will need to change the center shock length. This will increase pod droop, sure, but that is just a number
Hi,
so my thought's where right from the begining.
You cannot change one setting without changing a second parameter.
But it would nice if Edward could make a video how he set's 0,2mm or 0,4mm pod sag.
So pls Edward would You.

Thanks

Claude
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:15 PM   #41818
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Sure, I'll show you my quick and easy way to set pod droop and pod sag.

I'll have a video made up for this evening... Japanese time
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:37 PM   #41819
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so I found a set of unused jaco tires, probably 6 years old at least. Should I try and use them? Of course Ill sauce the hell out of it.
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:16 AM   #41820
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Here are the videos you requested toroloco.

Pod Sag
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Hjn00gXug

Pod Droop
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=suI3uKzmwew

Shock Settings Which Adjust Pod Droop and Sag. Fast explanation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAyynq1VKI

Last edited by EDWARD2003; 12-17-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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