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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 11-26-2014, 01:48 AM   #41686
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Not bad...looks slightly loose
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:00 AM   #41687
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Temperatures where in the 10 degrees Celsius range and I was running TR-12. The AMR should cure the mid corner oversteer.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:00 AM   #41688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
I assume you mean pod droop? Below 1mm?
Yip pod droop. I adjust up and down to get a nice balance. Some people at my track run 0 I run about 1.5 but its an outdoor track with some bumps so carpet may be very different.

Never seen much written here about front suspension droop. Not sure it's something that you adjust on a 1/12 car.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:04 AM   #41689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
Temperatures where in the 10 degrees Celsius range and I was running TR-12. The AMR should cure the mid corner oversteer.
Looks really good imo
I too like the TR-12
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:23 AM   #41690
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Hey EDWARD2003,

Track Looks nice!!! Try to be a little smoother on the steering input since your on asphalt. And through the chicane You can actually straight line it. Just run about an inch of the curb as your guide and run straight through

Other than that the Car/Driver looks nice.










Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
Kyosho Plasma revisited... I'll be honest I kinda gave up on this chassis. I couldn't figure out why it was handling the way I wanted it to. Lone behold it was my lack of knowledge of 1/12th setup that was the main factor. Obviously.

Ever since switching over to R12C3, I've learned a lot and still learning. So, all the knowledge I've gathered and put into my Plasma Ra. I went back to the chassis and looked over everything... First off...This will sound embarrassing, I thought all the shims in the bag were required to make the track width 172 and 168.. So I used them all... Boy was I wrong.. Little did I know, my track width front and rear was out, and I mean way out. The rear was 182 mm and the front 174.. Talk about dump truck.

I removed all the spacers with 172 mm rear and 166 mm front.

Afterwards I did a test run. What difference it made. It drove so much better, but it still needs more work.

Check out how she handles now. I might add an additional 1 mm spacer to widen the front a little to help with stability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gFuFbG_eCo
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:48 PM   #41691
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Thanks everyone.

If you don't mind. What setup changes should I test out to improve it's handling? My current setup is as follows.

REAR

Ride height -4.0 mm
Track Width - 172 mm
Tires - Team Bomber Medium Soft 45.0 mm
Damper -Tubes CRC 20,000
Side Spring -Associated Silver. Just touching
Center Damper - Speed Passion 40wt with Associated Blue Spring
Pod Sag 0.2 mm
Pod Droop 1.0 mm

Front

Track Width - 165 mm
Ride Height 4.0 mm
Team Bomber Medium 44.0
CRC 20,000 on kingpin
Associated 0.45 spring <= In Japan they use this measurement. Maybe it's 0.20?
Camber - -1.5
Toe out - ~ 1.0 mm
Standard front end setup.
Caster Block 10*
Caster clips even front and rear.
Steering ackerman is slightly forward.
Droop 4~5 mm

We use Paragon Black can. 40 rear 5~10 front.

Any tips and setup directions are much appreciated.
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #41692
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What do you want the car to do? What problems if any are you having?
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:59 PM   #41693
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There's not a whole lot wrong with it.. I'm just on the quest to make it consistent and faster.

I would like it to have more initial steer and mid corner, without sacrificing rear traction.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:11 PM   #41694
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Set-up looks pretty good for high initial and mid steering but a couple things that may help.

1. Try a bit harder center spring.

2. Go lighter on the front kingpin lube (or run them dry).

3. If possible, move weight rearward. Move the battery or electronics back if possible. Especially if you're on asphalt, get everything as far back as possible except the motor which should be as far forward as possible.

4. Does the car have any sort of front brace? If so, remove it. Front braces are one of my favorite adjustments.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:19 PM   #41695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Set-up looks pretty good for high initial and mid steering but a couple things that may help.

1. Try a bit harder center spring.

2. Go lighter on the front kingpin lube (or run them dry).

3. If possible, move weight rearward. Move the battery or electronics back if possible. Especially if you're on asphalt, get everything as far back as possible except the motor which should be as far forward as possible.

4. Does the car have any sort of front brace? If so, remove it. Front braces are one of my favorite adjustments.
I'll bump up the spring to Associated Gold. I'll run 10,000 CRC.

The electronics all moved rearward. However, the moving of the motor far forward is a new concept to me. Could you elaborate on this? At the moment, I would say the motor is full rearward.

Yes, the car is running a front brace withe a rubber o-ring sandwiched between two brace posts.

Main chassis and pod 2.00 mm front and rear. Standard chassis is 2.5 mm, I was thinking a thinner chassis will produce more mechanical grip.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:41 PM   #41696
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There are a few different theories on why motor position matters and I'll touch on them but the simple answer is to always use the biggest spur/pinion combo that will fit in the car (and gives the right rollout of course) to get the motor as far forward as possible. It just feels so much better. As to why...

1. Unlike nearly all other vehicles, the motor is rigidly mounted to the rear axle so it is unsprung weight. However, it is not mounted centered directly over the axle, it's between the axle and the suspension pivot so there is a motion ratio involved. This means that some percentage of motor weight is unsprung and some is sprung. The closer the motor is to that pivot and farther from the rear axle, the less unsprung weight/more sprung weight. This is a good thing.

2. Torque from the motor (accelerating) or applied to the motor (braking) acts directly on the suspension. Pan cars are actually opposite from most cars in that the motor tries to climb the spur under acceleration, lifting the rear while the spur pushes down on the motor under braking, causing it to squat. My theory is that the closer the motor is to the pivot point, the less severe these forces will be. I could be totally wrong about that but on track feel seems to back it up.
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:17 PM   #41697
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Makes sense to shift the motor forward, and I'll have to give it a try. Thanks again for your assistance.

However, when I do move the motor far forward I'll have to make sure the motor isn't interfering with the suspension when compressed. i.e motor hitting the chassis' side spring bridge.. ect.
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:33 PM   #41698
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Most cars it will hit the lower pod plate or something before it ever got close to the bridge but I haven't had them all so who knows.
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:05 PM   #41699
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I might as well pick your brain some more. What is the difference in handling (if there is any) when running side springs at inner or outer positions (on top of side links). Does this change the roll characteristics of chassis?

Also, when it comes to setting up the damper tubes. I've been told, the thicker the tube lube the more rear traction, thinner the more steering.

So, do damper tubes effect the rear pod or the main chassis?

I don't know how to describe this properly, please forgive me...They way I think of it is, the rear pod as a whole is like a anchored weight (static weight?), but with a forward motion produced by the wheels. Therefore, it is the the main chassis (dynamic weight) which we are trying to tune against this anchored weight (rear pod), so when it comes to side tubes, central damper, ect, ect. All these changes affects the dynamics of the main chassis only and not the rear pod.

Does it sound right?
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:31 PM   #41700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
I might as well pick your brain some more. What is the difference in handling (if there is any) when running side springs at inner or outer positions (on top of side links). Does this change the roll characteristics of chassis?

The inboard position is going to feel softer, as there is effectively a longer lever working on the spring. Also, the inboard position brings a degree of progressive rate into the equation--as compared to the outboard position. So, a 4# spring outboard will feel stiffer than the same spring inboard. Which will generally translate into more steering.

Also, when it comes to setting up the damper tubes. I've been told, the thicker the tube lube the more rear traction, thinner the more steering.

I would say you have this reversed. Thicker lube will tend to keep weight transfered forward as compared to thinner. More steering. You can decide whether you think thicker lube results in a tick less turn in. I will hazard that most feel thicker lube results in more overall steering, and conversely, thinner more rear traction.

So, do damper tubes effect the rear pod or the main chassis?

I don't know how to describe this properly, please forgive me...They way I think of it is, the rear pod as a whole is like a anchored weight (static weight?), but with a forward motion produced by the wheels. Therefore, it is the the main chassis (dynamic weight) which we are trying to tune against this anchored weight (rear pod), so when it comes to side tubes, central damper, ect, ect. All these changes affects the dynamics of the main chassis only and not the rear pod.

I think we all develop our own mental model of how these simple tricky little beasts work. And it evolves over time.

Does it sound right?
.
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