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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 09-19-2014, 07:37 AM   #41386
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Originally Posted by billyho0 View Post
Hello
I would like to know does the FX3 need to use the wheel from Kawada only?
can it attached with other 1/12 wheel & tires like Shepherd or Jaco?
Thanks a lot!

Billy
As standard the kit does use the proprietary Kawada wheels. However, It can be easily modified to accept "standard" 12th scale wheels like Jaco or BSR.

For the rear you'll have to use different hubs and shim accordingly. The Kawada also uses proprietary diff rings, so you should consider swapping the whole rear axle. Something like this would have everything you need.

In my case, I'm using Pro-One tires which have their own unique offset. So my setup has Pro-One hubs and axle. Because of the offset and pod width I also found I had to use 3/32" diff balls to get the rear width under 172mm.

For the front I converted to 1/8" axles so it would accept a standard flanged bearing used with most wheels. The stock axles are 3mm. I used Lunsford titanium axles. The stock knuckle has a small shim molded in (circled) that I sanded flat to accommodate the Lunsford axle and keep the same width.



Hope that helps!
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:42 AM   #41387
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Having the servo in the exact middle of the chassis is extremely important to making the car handle well. I am a sticker for it, I can feel a 5 thousandths error in the centering of my servo.
I hear ya! I understand that it affects it, but I was hoping for a discussion as to why/how from a technical standpoint. I like understanding why things happen, not just that they do.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:53 AM   #41388
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Originally Posted by lpittman View Post
I hear ya! I understand that it affects it, but I was hoping for a discussion as to why/how from a technical standpoint. I like understanding why things happen, not just that they do.
un-equal steering link lengths
un-equal ackerman
=
un-optimised handling
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:06 AM   #41389
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
un-equal steering link lengths
un-equal ackerman
=
un-optimised handling
Yep, I get that. I guess I'm more curious about the actual physics involved.
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:39 AM   #41390
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Yep, I get that. I guess I'm more curious about the actual physics involved.
You mean like unequal tire scrub radii and stuff ?
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:46 AM   #41391
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
You mean like unequal tire scrub radii and stuff ?
Yeah! The fun stuff. When I study the geometry I don't see a massive issue with unequal link lengths. Obviously there is an issue, but it seems to me that it would be amplified by the amount of ackerman you have setup. So, if you didn't have any ackerman and the links stayed straight the whole length of travel it wouldn't be an issue. Obviously it will never travel straight the entire throw, but you get what I'm saying.

Just thought a discussion on the topic would be interesting. Perhaps not.

lol
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #41392
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Originally Posted by lpittman View Post
Yeah! The fun stuff. When I study the geometry I don't see a massive issue with unequal link lengths. Obviously there is an issue, but it seems to me that it would be amplified by the amount of ackerman you have setup. So, if you didn't have any ackerman and the links stayed straight the whole length of travel it wouldn't be an issue. Obviously it will never travel straight the entire throw, but you get what I'm saying.

Just thought a discussion on the topic would be interesting. Perhaps not.

lol
Even if the links start straight (vertically and horizontally), as the spindles travel, the links progressively move away from their straight nature horizontally, and the servo horn rotation moves the links away from straight vertically. If the links are different lengths, then the rates of change are not equal, thus the ackermann (vert&horz) and bumper (vert) are both different from left to right - which is not ideal.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:26 PM   #41393
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Just in the process of setting up my cars for the coming season and started looking closer at steering geometry and had a question that I thought I'd post on here.

What is the importance of the servo horn lining up directly in the middle of the chassis?

I have a few different servo's and some of them line up better with the mounting points to align the servo down the center of the chassis than others.

Thoughts?

Cheers!
My take on this...

As the servo-saver moves, the more it travels through its arc so the less lateral movement you get from the steering arms. As the arms get shorter, the less lock you get for a given travel of the servo saver.

Therefore, the issue here is not one of Ackerman, it is one of unequal steering from left to right. IF this is corrected by altering the end points, the overall effect is that you have less lock overall and therefore less steering overall.

Foam tyres do not have a single contact patch. Despite the scrub of the offset axle and inboard kingpin, foam tyres work because each part of the tyre is able to generate its own slip angle. With that in mind, the amount of lock you can achieve will dictate the amount of steering you can achieve.

One short link that limits the lock you can get is more of a problem than any effect on the Ackerman angles you set. Ackeman is actually set by the steering blocks, not the steering links. What is affected is the amount of lock you get from each wheel which looks like Ackerman, but it is actually just differences in among of steering lock.

Too much play is made of the Ackerman angles on cars with foam tyres. Since the tyre does not behave like a rubber tyre, it is the amount of lock applied to the inner and outer wheels that translates into different steering feel, not the Ackerman angle. In reality, a 12th car's cornering behaviour is more affected by the instantaneous steering centre than by the Ackerman or differences in lock from side to side.

The reason a steering servo must be in the middle is to maximise the lock you can get from each wheel. The total amount you can achieve is dictated by the shortest link, so having each link equal increases total lock. Yes, I know you dial it back on the rate, but try driving a 12th car where the servo is offset 5mm one way. Once the lock circles are balanced on the Tx, the overall lock will be reduced a lot!

Congratulations to the guy who can tell the difference of a 0.005" off-centre position of his servo. Firstly you couldn't measure that accurately enough and secondly there is so much play in the whole front suspension that it could just as easily be a fraction more slop on one side of the whole front suspension, or one ball joint with a fraction more slop than the other. 0.005" is about the thickness of a human hair - forgive my scepticism...

Last edited by SlowerOne; 09-20-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:42 PM   #41394
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So, I trued my first set of tires this week and it seemed to go well. However, when I mount them on the axle, the rear tires seem to be a little lopsided. Only thing I can think of is that I didn't have them properly centered on the truing station, even though I double checked that part. So, two questions

1. Will a little off-center wiggle in the rear tires (trued at 43mm) kill the performance of my little pan car? Enough to throw them away and start over?

2. What's the trick to getting the wheels aligned on the Hudy arbor? I already have the Team Tamale adapters and was using those. The CRC wheels are a very tight fit on the arbor.

Thanks!
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #41395
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@SlowerOne

Nice share mate! I learn a lot from your post above.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:06 PM   #41396
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Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
So, I trued my first set of tires this week and it seemed to go well. However, when I mount them on the axle, the rear tires seem to be a little lopsided. Only thing I can think of is that I didn't have them properly centered on the truing station, even though I double checked that part. So, two questions

1. Will a little off-center wiggle in the rear tires (trued at 43mm) kill the performance of my little pan car? Enough to throw them away and start over?

2. What's the trick to getting the wheels aligned on the Hudy arbor? I already have the Team Tamale adapters and was using those. The CRC wheels are a very tight fit on the arbor.

Thanks!
On the subject of tires with a little out-of-round wiggle to them, they will typically warp their plastic material a little over the course of a run and run true. If it is making the car jump then you may have more of a problem, but I would run them in a practice and see if they come off true.

When it comes to cutting tires, just be sure to watch the rim, not the foam, and make sure it spins super true before cutting. I don't own a Hudy arbor, but if I can tell that the rim is spinning out-of-round on the truer I adjust it. It takes me a long time to true tires.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:06 PM   #41397
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
My take on this...

As the servo-saver moves, the more it travels through its arc so the less lateral movement you get from the steering arms. As the arms get shorter, the less lock you get for a given travel of the servo saver.

Therefore, the issue here is not one of Ackerman, it is one of unequal steering from left to right. IF this is corrected by altering the end points, the overall effect is that you have less lock overall and therefore less steering overall.

Foam tyres do not have a single contact patch. Despite the scrub of the offset axle and inboard kingpin, foam tyres work because each part of the tyre is able to generate its own slip angle. With that in mind, the amount of lock you can achieve will dictate the amount of steering you can achieve.

One short link that limits the lock you can get is more of a problem than any effect on the Ackerman angles you set. Ackeman is actually set by the steering blocks, not the steering links. What is affected is the amount of lock you get from each wheel which looks like Ackerman, but it is actually just differences in among of steering lock.

Too much play is made of the Ackerman angles on cars with foam tyres. Since the tyre does not behave like a rubber tyre, it is the amount of lock applied to the inner and outer wheels that translates into different steering feel, not the Ackerman angle. In reality, a 12th car's cornering behaviour is more affected by the instantaneous steering centre than by the Ackerman or differences in lock from side to side.

The reason a steering servo must be in the middle is to maximise the love you can get from each wheel. The total amount you can achieve is dictated by the shortest link, so having each link equal increases total lock. Yes, I know you dial it back on the rate, but try driving a 12th car where the servo is offset 5mm one way. Once the lock circles are balanced on the Tx, the overall lock will be reduced a lot!

Congratulations to the guy who can tell the difference of a 0.005" off-centre position of his servo. Firstly you couldn't measure that accurately enough and secondly there is so much play in the whole front suspension that it could just as easily be a fraction more slop on one side of the whole front suspension, or one ball joint with a fraction more slop than the other. 0.005" is about the thickness of a human hair - forgive my scepticism...
That is some fantastic insight man, thanks!

So, other than the affect on streering lock, do you think it has any affect? Okay, you can tune the end travel and get it so the car turns the same radius each direction, but other than that affect what do you think?

Regarding Ackerman though - if you make it extreme you can clearly see the difference between the inner and outer tire's radius, is that not all Ackerman is?
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:58 AM   #41398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Stew View Post
As standard the kit does use the proprietary Kawada wheels. However, It can be easily modified to accept "standard" 12th scale wheels like Jaco or BSR.

For the rear you'll have to use different hubs and shim accordingly. The Kawada also uses proprietary diff rings, so you should consider swapping the whole rear axle. Something like this would have everything you need.

In my case, I'm using Pro-One tires which have their own unique offset. So my setup has Pro-One hubs and axle. Because of the offset and pod width I also found I had to use 3/32" diff balls to get the rear width under 172mm.

For the front I converted to 1/8" axles so it would accept a standard flanged bearing used with most wheels. The stock axles are 3mm. I used Lunsford titanium axles. The stock knuckle has a small shim molded in (circled) that I sanded flat to accommodate the Lunsford axle and keep the same width.



Hope that helps!
Thank you very much. This really helps me a lot!
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:46 AM   #41399
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Hi guys, looks like out local 1/12 class will be running 17.5 this season. Would you recommend a high torque rotor in this class, or the regular rotors? We run on a 40x80 ft track with CRC carpet.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:59 PM   #41400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
On the subject of tires with a little out-of-round wiggle to them, they will typically warp their plastic material a little over the course of a run and run true. If it is making the car jump then you may have more of a problem, but I would run them in a practice and see if they come off true.

When it comes to cutting tires, just be sure to watch the rim, not the foam, and make sure it spins super true before cutting. I don't own a Hudy arbor, but if I can tell that the rim is spinning out-of-round on the truer I adjust it. It takes me a long time to true tires.
I'd like to hear others thoughts about the topic of wobbly wheels as well. Especially if the truer has been eliminated as a problem.
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