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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 12-02-2013, 11:18 AM   #40216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrobeast View Post
New to 12th scale running 17.5 and wondering what others are gearing Revtech motors at for big tracks. 100x45 or so.
Comparing to others up front I can keep up but those last 2 minutes they are 2-4 tenths faster.

I've tried high rollout little timing, low rollout high timing and high rollout high timing but it doesn't make a difference toward the end of the race. When running low rollout and low timing I might as well pull it off after a couple laps.

Any help is appreciated.
I'm currently at a 105mm rollout with a revtech high torque rotor and rpm stator. Works well at full timing minus one notch in tr older R series motor.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #40217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirko View Post
I'm not allowed to post URL's.

Hi Paul,

thank you for the link to the article about the Front End. I really enjoyed reading it. Itís very well written from a passionate racer and gave me some good hints.
Nonetheless, when it comes to the 2 degrees steering knuckles the description of the way they are mounted is a bit confusing.


I donít understand what's meant by: ďleans the kingpin into the carĒ.
If the top end of the King Pin would be kicked outboard the Rollcentre high increased. This would confirm the described driving experience.


I did some rough measurements and a bit off fooling around with CAD. The basic dimensions are:

Front Tire diameter: 41mm
Ground Clearance: 3,5mm
Camber: 1,5deg
Front Axle Wide: 172mm
Recative Caster Block: 0deg
Reactive Caster Block spaced 2mm inboard (short Asso 5.1 Frontbrace)


The green lines show the basic condition of my Asso R5.2. The pink lines show the top of the King Pin kicked 2 degrees outboard. With 1,5 degree camber the King Pin angle is +0,5 degree to Z. On the contrary the blue lines represent the top of the King Pin been kicked 2 degrees inboard. It leads to a King Pin angle of -3,5 degrees towards Z.
Attachment 1139432
Rollcentre height standard: 8,6mm
Rollcentre height King Pin 2deg outboard (+0,5deg): 12,9mm
Rollcentre height King Pin 2deg inboard (-3,5deg): 4,3mm


The values might not be 100 percent correct because of the rough measuring I did, bit it gives a good impression of what happens. The change in the static Rollcentre height appears to be quite drastic. It might advantageously to get hold of the 1deg and 2deg Steering Knuckle to raise the Rollcentre on high grip Tracks.

There were some more spots in the article Iíd like to quote.


Maybe the front holes are intended for 1/12 while the rear holes are fitting the geometry on 1/10 pancars (World GT).


Nice to know, because the whole axle isn't to expensive.


I can confirm that my fella Chris and I also experienced collapsing of the AE front springs after a view races. We measure the length from time to time and they become shorter. A pair of AE 0.022 springs I bought had 2 different lengths just out of the bag. I tried to pull them to the same length but it wasnít possible. So I did not use them because they would have tweaked the car.

Maybe itís worth getting the parts #4693 and #4694 of the R5.1 Lipo Kit. Would they fit on the R5.2?
Hi Mirko

Regarding the steering arm inserts, the handling change is more to do with the way the tyre is presented to the track, than the change in roll centres.

If you imagine a theoretical kingpin with 2 degrees negative camber and 2 degrees castor, with the standard steering arm the axle is always at 90 degrees to the kingpin. With the wheels straight you have 2 degrees negative camber at the wheel. Turn the outside wheel through 90 degrees (exaggerated to make a point) and it will give 2 degrees negative camber at the wheel again. The inside wheel turned through 90 degrees will have 2 degreed positive camber.

Now, fit a steering arm with 2 degrees built in postive camber. To have 2 degrees negative at the wheel, the kingpin is now inclined at 4 degrees. Turn the outside wheel as before, and the tyre is flat on the track at zero degrees. Hence loads of mid corner steering from the loaded wheel. The inside wheel is now at 4 degrees postive running lightly on it's outside edge.

As I said its exaggerated to highlight the point. In practice, we run 2 to 2 1/2 degrees negative camber on the wheel to keep them wearing flat. This also makes the car less twitchy as initially you have a smaller contact patch on the track. On turn in, you ramp up onto a fuller contact patch on the loaded wheel than on a standard steering arm, which gives the good mid corner grip.

One extra not for everyone. The front end on my car has stayed perfectly true and slop free through 2 National weekend and nunerous club nights. This includes 3 head on collisons with solid objects that have twice left the pod seperated from the chassis, and once delaminated the chassis. I was unlucky each time to find the only solid bits on the track. Only spent £3 in spares to fix the broken bits though.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:53 PM   #40218
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I am posting here to just watch this thread. Disregard this post. Thank you!
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:55 PM   #40219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antimullet View Post
I'm currently at a 105mm rollout with a revtech high torque rotor and rpm stator. Works well at full timing minus one notch in tr older R series motor.
Yeah I am also running the torque rotor. At one point I had that same rollout and timing.
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:38 PM   #40220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirko View Post
[I]


I did some rough measurements and a bit off fooling around with CAD. The basic dimensions are:

Front Tire diameter: 41mm
Ground Clearance: 3,5mm
Camber: 1,5deg
Front Axle Wide: 172mm
Recative Caster Block: 0deg
Reactive Caster Block spaced 2mm inboard (short Asso 5.1 Frontbrace)


The green lines show the basic condition of my Asso R5.2. The pink lines show the top of the King Pin kicked 2 degrees outboard. With 1,5 degree camber the King Pin angle is +0,5 degree to Z. On the contrary the blue lines represent the top of the King Pin been kicked 2 degrees inboard. It leads to a King Pin angle of -3,5 degrees towards Z.
The geometry you have used to calculate the roll centre should have the lower line in the direction of the lower arm at right angles to the kingpin angle, and the upper line following the line of the upper wishbone. Therefore, as you change the camber the effect on the roll centre is minimal. If your drawing were correct the handling of the car would change totally for an additional 0.5 deg of camber - it doesn't.

Our suspension is a Macpherson strut system with the spring on the bottom, not the top. See this link for the idea. Recalculate using this correct geometry and you will find the impact of camber change is very small indeed. HTH
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:57 PM   #40221
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Is there a actual rating to the Shur Lube? as just from #1 is the thinest. #6 is the thickest is a bit vague
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:35 PM   #40222
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Default Raising the side links

What handling characteristics will be generated when placing shims underneath the pivotball side links?
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:06 PM   #40223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
What handling characteristics will be generated when placing shims underneath the pivotball side links?
In a modern car, the answer is not a lot. Today's cars have very long links and low rear pivot roll centers, a small amount of shimming of the pivots will not produce much rear-steer and a lot would put too much leverage on the chassis in a crash. As for how the car would react to rear-steer it would depend on the car and how much roll it has in cornering, so it's anybody's guess.
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:37 AM   #40224
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Is there a actual rating to the Shur Lube? as just from #1 is the thinest. #6 is the thickest is a bit vague
No. People have been asking for years and as far as I know, no real answer has ever been produced.
E
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #40225
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No. People have been asking for years and as far as I know, no real answer has ever been produced.
E
ok thanks, yeah i figured as much seeing as i couldnt find anything on google cheers
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:18 AM   #40226
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Posted this in the HW thread as well, but maybe some eyes with the needed experience is more likely to see it here?


"Has anyone tried the HW 3.1 1cell esc with a speed passion 3.0 1cell motor?

I recently tried that combination (3.5T motor) with the Andy Moore settings in HW's web page. Compared to my other motors (ThunderPower) it was suprisingly slow.

I want to give it another go and is wondering if anyone has advice as to what way to go with gearing and esc setup. At the moment it's lacking punch and top end speed.."
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:17 AM   #40227
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What ESC's are you guys running currently?
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:28 AM   #40228
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What ESC's are you guys running currently?
HW JUSTOCK in mine with a $5 booster
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:38 AM   #40229
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The 1s Orca / no booster.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #40230
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Hobbywing 1s version 2.1, LRP Stock Spec v2 (discontinued). Both are voltage-boosting ESC's, so 1s is just peachy.
I have a tendancy to buy only ESC's that can support unlimited motors.
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