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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:08 AM   #40066
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Got a list of springs: old crc, new crc and asc. That's all I can get my hands on for now. I will get it posted up. Dare I say.... they're not as consistent as we're led to believe.

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Old 11-04-2013, 12:58 PM   #40067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsinclair View Post
Blacks might be to aggressive , try a chrome.
Post your entire setup
Ride height
Static caster
Reactive caster
Camber
Toe
Front springs
Front droop
Center spring/oil
Side springs


That being said I have never traction rolled a 1/12 ... somethings up..
We have been thru the car. The football and the side links were sticking but we got that worked out. The car still had a traction roll/ hook entering the corner. Not as bad but it still did it.

ide height: 4 mm
Static caster 3.25 deg upper arm shimmed
Reactive caster: 10 deg block setting
Camber: about 1.5 deg
Toe: 0 deg.
Front springs: .20 (100k lube on kingpin)
Front droop: almost no droop.
Center spring/oil: Blue/ 30 wt
Side springs: Silver (no preload)
Damper tubes: 20K
Rear pod droop: 1.2mm
Motor: 17.5 blinky
Motor wire: 16 ga.

The track is mostly flowing with Med/high bite carpet. It did traction roll on a 180 turn
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Last edited by Mugen10; 11-04-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:05 PM   #40068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000 View Post
Got a list of springs: old crc, new crc and asc. That's all I can get my hands on for now. I will get it posted up. Dare I say.... they're not as consistent as we're led to believe.

Brian
That's not surprising. If I recall correctly, the torsional rigidity of a solid rod is proportional to the fourth power of its diameter. So a 3% variation in the wire size would give a 12.5% change in the spring rate. And there are plenty of other dimensions that will vary, also.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:09 PM   #40069
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On the associated 12R5 suspension, what does adding shims to the upper or lower arm mounts do?
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:14 PM   #40070
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Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr View Post
On the associated 12R5 suspension, what does adding shims to the upper or lower arm mounts do?
Are you talking about the front blocks. Adding shms to the caster blocks makes the upper arms longer. As my last post shows I am no pro but just trying to help.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #40071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen10 View Post
We have been thru the car. The football and the side links were sticking but we got that worked out. The car still had a traction roll/ hook entering the corner. Not as bad but it still did it.

ide height: 4 mm
Static caster 3.25 deg upper arm shimmed
Reactive caster: 10 deg block setting
Camber: about 1.5 deg
Toe: 0 deg.
Front springs: .20 (100k lube on kingpin)
Front droop: almost no droop.
Center spring/oil: Blue/ 30 wt
Side springs: Silver (no preload)
Rear pod droop: 1.2mm
Motor: 17.5 blinky
Motor wire: 16 ga.

The track is mostly flowing with Med/high bite carpet. It did traction roll on a 180 turn
The two biggest things (I think) that have an impact on traction rolling are ride height (slam it) and tire size (cut 'em down). Those two items alone will probably kill the traction roll, but obviously cutting down tires isn't always a good solution, especially when club racing.

Outside of those, it seems like there are a couple different "schools of thought" when it comes to reducing/eliminating traction roll.

- Make the car super soft all around so that it rolls instead of flipping. This is supposedly the Yokomo "ideal" for mod 12th, from what I have been told.

- Make the car stay level so it doesn't flip. This typically involves using thick tube lube and side spring preload. I have seen people use really thick tube lube with soft side springs, but I have seen others use stiffer side springs (silver) with the same thicker tube lube as well.

I have typically gone the softer route since it also mellows the car out in higher traction, so hopefully somebody who goes the thicker tube lube route can chime in.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:20 PM   #40072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr View Post
On the associated 12R5 suspension, what does adding shims to the upper or lower arm mounts do?
Adding shims to the lower arm mounts changes front width. Wider will mellow the car out, narrower will make the car more aggressive.

Adding shims to the castor block will lengthen the upper arm, reduce the upper arm angle, and thus reduce camber gain. I know Keven and some of the other AE guys use 2mm shims on the caster block, but I think Max K used 1.5mm shims at Vegas. Something to try out, if nothing else.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:21 PM   #40073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen10 View Post
We have been thru the car. The football and the side links were sticking but we got that worked out. The car still had a traction roll/ hook entering the corner. Not as bad but it still did it.

ide height: 4 mm
Static caster 3.25 deg upper arm shimmed
Reactive caster: 10 deg block setting
Camber: about 1.5 deg
Toe: 0 deg.
Front springs: .20 (100k lube on kingpin)
Front droop: almost no droop.
Center spring/oil: Blue/ 30 wt
Side springs: Silver (no preload)
Rear pod droop: 1.2mm
Motor: 17.5 blinky
Motor wire: 16 ga.

The track is mostly flowing with Med/high bite carpet. It did traction roll on a 180 turn
Traction rolling a 12th scale(even 17.5) is quite possible on very high bite tracks. We saw a number of guys doing it in Vegas a few weeks ago... and from all accounts, there were plenty of guys rolling @ the Halloween Classic last week, too.

The big things to look at to fix your problem:

1) First and foremost... TIRES: What compounds/sizes are you running? Running your tires too large is probably the number one cause of 12ths acting goofy in high traction situations.

2) Circle size: If you are on a high bite track and are traction rolling in a 180/hairpin, while running a 1.5ft circle and trying to drive the car full wood into the corner, then just cranking the wheel... no amount of setup changes are going to help you. Set your circles at 4ft and go from there.

3) Front camber: 1.5deg could be a bit much if the bite is high. Too much front camber or camber gain will greatly contribute to the car hiking a tire and/or traction rolling. If the track is med/high bite, like you say, I would try 1.0deg. In fact, I would just set it at 0.5deg for now... until you get the problem under control.

4) Front end width: Measure the width. You can probably go wider at the lower arms by a 1mm or so and/or shim out at the axle/wheel, as well.

5) Ride height: 4mm is a bit high unless the track is rather bumpy. If your car isn't bottoming out/dragging in places, Id go down to 3.5mm at the least.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:22 PM   #40074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydLoar View Post
Adding shims to the lower arm mounts changes front width. Wider will mellow the car out, narrower will make the car more aggressive.

Adding shims to the castor block will lengthen the upper arm, reduce the upper arm angle, and thus reduce camber gain. I know Keven and some of the other AE guys use 2mm shims on the caster block, but I think Max K used 1.5mm shims at Vegas. Something to try out, if nothing else.
Perfect, that's what I was looking for.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:03 PM   #40075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Traction rolling a 12th scale(even 17.5) is quite possible on very high bite tracks. We saw a number of guys doing it in Vegas a few weeks ago... and from all accounts, there were plenty of guys rolling @ the Halloween Classic last week, too.

The big things to look at to fix your problem:

1) First and foremost... TIRES: What compounds/sizes are you running? Running your tires too large is probably the number one cause of 12ths acting goofy in high traction situations.

2) Circle size: If you are on a high bite track and are traction rolling in a 180/hairpin, while running a 1.5ft circle and trying to drive the car full wood into the corner, then just cranking the wheel... no amount of setup changes are going to help you. Set your circles at 4ft and go from there.

3) Front camber: 1.5deg could be a bit much if the bite is high. Too much front camber or camber gain will greatly contribute to the car hiking a tire and/or traction rolling. If the track is med/high bite, like you say, I would try 1.0deg. In fact, I would just set it at 0.5deg for now... until you get the problem under control.

4) Front end width: Measure the width. You can probably go wider at the lower arms by a 1mm or so and/or shim out at the axle/wheel, as well.

5) Ride height: 4mm is a bit high unless the track is rather bumpy. If your car isn't bottoming out/dragging in places, Id go down to 3.5mm at the least.
Thanks for the advice.
I am running about a 4ft turn radios and I do think I should cut the tires down more and maybe start off around 42.5mm in rear with 1mm gap F/R.
Also that is good to know use less camber as traction goes up. The traction was getting really high when I was testing. I will also round the front tires more on the edges.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:15 PM   #40076
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For what it's worth, putting a smoother radius on the tire edge can make the traction rolling worse, depending on tire diameter and how high traction is. A squared off edge will chunk easier, but you will likely find it will help prevent traction rolling since the car can't roll as easily. This and the description of what front springs will do to car feel are the only places where my personal opinion differs from that of that 12th scale cheat sheet that people often post.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #40077
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Wow, I have always been told to round the tires off more will help reduce bite in the corners. I remember when I was trying to get Magenta front tires to work and they were hooking up to much. They told me to round the sides and glue the outside.

Well I guess you never know until you test it yourself.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #40078
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For what it is worth, I round my sidewalls off so they have a nice smooth radius

Hard to describe, but there is a difference between reducing bite and making the car less tippy. You can have a car that has a lot of traction but isn't tippy. Part of the trick is that when you are running really small tires (such as at a big race with high traction) there really isn't enough foam on the rim to distinguish between a rounded off sidewall and a squared sidewall. Realistically, they end up looking very similar.

Gluing sidewalls will definitely help, but I would only do that as a last resort.

Another thing to think about would be trying to take note of whether the car is lifting from the front or the rear, which should help tell you whether you can do something at the opposite end to try and calm it down.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #40079
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Also only sauce the inside of your fronts about 1/3 to 1/2 and rears full
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #40080
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Was wondering if someone could comment on the advantages/disadvantages of running the battery transverse as apposed to inline. Seems that some are liking the XTi with the alterego kit, and the new X-ray X12-14 give the ability to run the battery in either configuration.
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