R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #39316
Tech Master
 
EDWARD2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Posts: 1,918
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

There were no significant changes to the rollout.

Is it better to run with larger diameter tires while running outdoors? It seems to me, running larger the diameter tires gives the car stability and predictability in the corners. I think (- this is just a hypothesis -), when the tires foam wears down to a smaller diameter, the wheel starts to act upon or is changing the foams shore rating. This would be most notable when running outdoors on a hard asphalt surface. Whereas, carpet surfaces acts like a thin layer which buffers the foam tires from the hard underlying surface. This thin layer of carpet will absorb the influence of the wheel against the hardness of the underlying floor. Hence, why you can run such smaller diameter tires and still maintain predictable handling.

This is all a guess, but what do you think?
EDWARD2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:32 PM   #39317
avs
Tech Master
 
avs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,144
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCbud View Post
I build mine with no rebound, as fare as I am concerned the only thing that should controll the rebound is the spring. Also rebound can fade over time thus chainging how the shock works. I feel that no rebound is a more concistant adjustment.
That makes sense, I wouldn't mind getting 0 rebound, but with the silva or hb shock anything less than max rebound means getting air in the shock even sooner.
__________________
Tony Shimko
avs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:40 PM   #39318
Tech Fanatic
 
BCbud's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 755
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
There were no significant changes to the rollout.

Is it better to run with larger diameter tires while running outdoors? It seems to me, running larger the diameter tires gives the car stability and predictability in the corners. I think (- this is just a hypothesis -), when the tires foam wears down to a smaller diameter, the wheel starts to act upon or is changing the foams shore rating. This would be most notable when running outdoors on a hard asphalt surface. Whereas, carpet surfaces acts like a thin layer which buffers the foam tires from the hard underlying surface. This thin layer of carpet will absorb the influence of the wheel against the hardness of the underlying floor. Hence, why you can run such smaller diameter tires and still maintain predictable handling.

This is all a guess, but what do you think?
I ran my 1/12th 10.5 turn out doors last year on a sugar water treated track. I started with full size tires and ran them almost to the rims and I did not notice any noticable differance in grip. I did add more gearing as the tires wore down over time and adjusted the ride hight to mantain my 4mm. I used Exeed hard compound front tires and CRC pink rear tires.

If you do not add more gear as the tires wear down, you will get slower and have more torque as the tires get smaller. Also with the smaller tires you will notice an increase in the amount the motor slows you down off throttle. What pitch gears do you run, I use 64p for finer adjustment.
__________________
Xray NT1 - Xray T4 2013 TC - Xray T4 2013 VTA - CRCgenX10 - CRCgenX - CRCgenXi - Slash 4X4 with LCG conversion -Associated RC8Be - Xray XB4 - DX3R PRO
Recycled teenager.
www.irocc.ca ; www.corvictoria.com ; http://www.wcics.ca/
I will not send Pay Pal as a gift or add fees to the price so DO NOT ASK!
BCbud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 02:04 AM   #39319
Tech Addict
 
Robert_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Netherlands, Sweet Lake City
Posts: 500
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
On a 1/12th I would not Use Rebound. I try and get mine down to as little as possible. I prefer the linear feel. There are merits for rebound but any time I have had rebound on my shock I have trouble with the car. either it gets twitchy or just not consistent around the track.

Could just be my style but hey you like what you like. every racer will have their "way" of building a car.

I say try both. See how they feel. then make your decision
+1

I almost always try to build my shock without any tebound.

Regards Robert
__________________
Sponsored by: Schumacher Racing and Dualsky
Supported by: Shepherd Benelux and Thunder Tiger.
Robert_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #39320
Tech Master
 
EDWARD2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Posts: 1,918
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Another issue has arisen with my chassis - Kyosho Plasma Ra.

The left front tire always lifts off first... I cant for the life of me figure out what the hell is going on. I double checked, triple checked to make sure the rear pod isn't tweaked, chassis isn't tweaked, tweak springs are set properly. The chassis was balanced correctly using the balance pin method. Springs were checked to make sure they have equal lengths. Everything is bind free and is working as it should.

However, in order to achieve a balanced chassis I need to add a TONNE of weight to the one side to compensate for the tweak. Also, I had two shims for preload.

All that was done and more some and the F@#$ thing is still tweaked... Now I have heard the front bulkheads are made of softer aluminum material. Not to sure if this is true or not. I can't remember any substantial impacts that would result in a damaged front end.

Need some help before I scrap this machine.
EDWARD2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 09:47 AM   #39321
Regional Moderator
 
CarbonJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,660
Default

Are the axle heights the same left to right? Take all the tires off, place chassis on a flat surface. Measure front axle height on both sides.
__________________
*** The Gate - Celebrating 7 years at the same location ***
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car
CarbonJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #39322
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,377
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
Another issue has arisen with my chassis - Kyosho Plasma Ra.

The left front tire always lifts off first... I cant for the life of me figure out what the hell is going on. I double checked, triple checked to make sure the rear pod isn't tweaked, chassis isn't tweaked, tweak springs are set properly. The chassis was balanced correctly using the balance pin method. Springs were checked to make sure they have equal lengths. Everything is bind free and is working as it should.

However, in order to achieve a balanced chassis I need to add a TONNE of weight to the one side to compensate for the tweak. Also, I had two shims for preload.

All that was done and more some and the F@#$ thing is still tweaked... Now I have heard the front bulkheads are made of softer aluminum material. Not to sure if this is true or not. I can't remember any substantial impacts that would result in a damaged front end.

Need some help before I scrap this machine.
Does running it with a tweak affect its performance? Also, check your wheels for some wobble, when setting the tweak on my car if I rotate the axle 180 degrees i found it can sometimes change the tweak reading.

Also, possibly dumb question, it sits exactly flat, right? Ride height gauge reads the same under both sides of the chassis?

Don't scrap it
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #39323
Tech Master
 
EDWARD2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Posts: 1,918
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Thanks for the prompt responses guys. I've eliminated all those chances of causing a tweak. I looked at the car did some measurements and discovered the suspension arms are 0.5~0.7 mm difference in height.

Now here's the thing, either I'm stupid, or Kyosho has made a bit of a boo, boo. When it comes to the lower suspension arms. They've manufactured the arms so that you have to flip one of the arms to match the others angle.. Now if you don't do this it will result in messed up suspension angles and binding king pins. Also, when inserting the balls into the lower suspension arm, one ball will seat in a little higher than the other. This is due to the arms being flipped, so this also causes some issues with the front suspension tweak.

Check out the manual and see what I mean.

http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/in...AZMA_Ra_IM.pdf

Go to page 23.

When inserting the suspension ball you must insert where there is a small dot molded into the suspension arm. In addition, the picture shows the suspension balls neck always facing at the top of the arm. That being said, the arms are opposite to each other, which causes one ball to seat at a different height then the other.
EDWARD2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 10:05 AM   #39324
V12
Tech Elite
 
V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,640
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Stiles View Post
Round 4 of the 2012/13 BRCA 1/12th Scale Nationals took place at Plymouth in the southwest of the UK last weekend. It had been 2 months since the last national so some of the drivers were a little rusty, although many had been racing at local club or regional events in January.
On Saturday the main 1/12th scale class is for 10.5 blinky. David Spashett dominated proceedings as he had at the first two rounds of the championship by taking a relatively comfortable TQ by 5 seconds..........
What car is David running these days?
I did meet him a lot of times in the past at international races but thatīs long ago.
__________________
Classic RC - http://classicrc.wordpress.com/
V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 11:10 AM   #39325
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 869
Default

Currently i'm driving a great tamiya 1/12th RM-01 chassis and i'm very pleased about the car but the problem is that when i'm at my lowest ride height of 3mm the tires still have more then enough foam left on them.
So i'm considering to buy another 1/12th car and still not sure what would be the best choice between the Xray X12 link and the asso 12R5.2.
I know the best choice for me would be the 5.2 cause there are allready 2 guys at the club who are running them but i do like the Xray also.
The 12R5.2 choice needs another investmend of new tools and setup parts for fine tuning
What do you guys think is the best choice?
addicted2blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 11:10 AM   #39326
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 869
Default

double post, sorry
addicted2blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:01 PM   #39327
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Both those cars are metric like your RM-01 so your tools should work fine.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #39328
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 869
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Both those cars are metric like your RM-01 so your tools should work fine.
Now i'm confused, are you sure about the 5.2 having metric screws?
Cause a guy at the club especially bought inch tools for building his 12R5.2.
addicted2blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:40 PM   #39329
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,539
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted2blue View Post
Now i'm confused, are you sure about the 5.2 having metric screws?
Cause a guy at the club especially bought inch tools for building his 12R5.2.
AE has been metric for a while now
It also has a rep for being one of the more durable 12th cars
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Last edited by RedBullFiXX; 03-02-2013 at 01:50 PM.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 02:10 PM   #39330
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Right...when they made the change from 12L to 12R they went to metric
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:18 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0