R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #38476
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

1A is plenty for a booster. 1/12th servos (even fast digitals) and transponders do not draw a lot of amps and they are the only loads.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 03:30 PM   #38477
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,377
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I have never seen a discussion of how the position of the motor inside of the pod affects the car handling... it would seem relevant because of the growing difference i pod length between various cars. My new CRC xti has a very short pod compared to the old Xi/XL pod dimensions, and in order to run my usual gear set I had to grind away a large amount of the football. I know moving the motor forward effectively removes unsprung weight, putting the weight on the center shock instead of just the rear tires, but does anybody know how that changes the car attitude aside from the age-old less unsprung weight is better argument?
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #38478
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I have never seen a discussion of how the position of the motor inside of the pod affects the car handling... it would seem relevant because of the growing difference i pod length between various cars. My new CRC xti has a very short pod compared to the old Xi/XL pod dimensions, and in order to run my usual gear set I had to grind away a large amount of the football. I know moving the motor forward effectively removes unsprung weight, putting the weight on the center shock instead of just the rear tires, but does anybody know how that changes the car attitude aside from the age-old less unsprung weight is better argument?
David Spashett said that he always felt that cars were smoother with the motor as far foreword as possible. Because if this he always tried to run the biggest spur he could. It's partly from centralization of mass and partly from the reduction of effective unsprung weight. The farther back the motor is the more weight/energy has to be controlled by the rear suspension.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 05:23 AM   #38479
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,638
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Yep, forward is better. You want it as far from the axle and close to the pivot as possible.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 05:49 AM   #38480
Tech Master
 
dontfeelcold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Where there's smoke there's a tyre
Posts: 1,722
Trader Rating: 20 (100%+)
Default

I remember seeing a pic of Hara's 1/12th from the 2004 Worlds. He had lead along the back of the pod under the axle. I will have to try and get a pic just in case I was dreaming.
dontfeelcold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #38481
Tech Adept
 
pyro854's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 210
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

I'm changing my 12R5 over to 13.5 from 17.5, any recommendations on a good starting point for gearing?
__________________
RJ Whiteside
pyro854 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 05:28 AM   #38482
Tech Champion
 
Logi Maker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 5,356
Trader Rating: 48 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro854 View Post
I'm changing my 12R5 over to 13.5 from 17.5, any recommendations on a good starting point for gearing?
I'm at a 104mm rollout with a Reedy Sonic..... most are running 76 spur and a 58-63 pinion in my neck of the woods....

That's for a 104' x 48' CRC super smooth carpet track....
__________________
Kyle Predmore
Facebook - "AE Fanboy"
B6D|B64D|B44.3. FOR SALE!
TC7|TC6TEK|12R5.2|10R5.1

Last edited by Logi Maker; 10-29-2012 at 05:48 PM.
Logi Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 08:27 AM   #38483
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

I really depends on your track. If it's tight and small start at 80 if it's big open and fast corners then you could go up to 100
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 01:21 AM   #38484
Tech Adept
 
Texco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 120
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Hi ladies and gents,

Didnt see this 1/12 page...

Looking to buy myself my first 1/12th for Mod asphalt racing, are all the current 1/12th's models all about the same in price and performance?

I'm not worried about parts that are available at me local hobby shop..

What's everyones top 3 recommended models?

Thanks for your time
Texco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 01:36 AM   #38485
Tech Champion
 
Radio Active's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 6,994
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I have never seen a discussion of how the position of the motor inside of the pod affects the car handling... it would seem relevant because of the growing difference i[n] pod length between various cars. My new CRC xti has a very short pod compared to the old Xi/XL pod dimensions, and in order to run my usual gear set I had to grind away a large amount of the football. I know moving the motor forward effectively removes unsprung weight, putting the weight on the center shock instead of just the rear tires, but does anybody know how that changes the car attitude aside from the age-old less unsprung weight is better argument?
I was recently asking an expert about pan car design. I thought this piece of information he gave me was relevant:

The imaginary line between the pivot ball and the tyre contact patch defines the anti-squat. So, moving the pivot ball backward would increase anti-squat.

Have you taken any measurements of the pod lengths (pivot-ball to axle distance) of the various cars? I would be interested in seeing some comparisons.
__________________
Reigning NSW 4WD Group 20 Champion
Member: Maitland Radio Car Club (http://www.morcc.com.au)
twitter: @dvcotton
Australian 12th Scale hastag: #EP12AU
Radio Active is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 01:38 AM   #38486
Tech Champion
 
Radio Active's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 6,994
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texco View Post
Hi ladies and gents,

Didnt see this 1/12 page...

Looking to buy myself my first 1/12th for Mod asphalt racing, are all the current 1/12th's models all about the same in price and performance?

I'm not worried about parts that are available at me local hobby shop..

What's everyones top 3 recommended models?

Thanks for your time
The Top Rebel won the FEMCA Championship last year in Sydney. That's the highest profile Asphalt race I can think of.
__________________
Reigning NSW 4WD Group 20 Champion
Member: Maitland Radio Car Club (http://www.morcc.com.au)
twitter: @dvcotton
Australian 12th Scale hastag: #EP12AU
Radio Active is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 08:16 AM   #38487
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,539
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texco View Post
Hi ladies and gents,

Didnt see this 1/12 page...

Looking to buy myself my first 1/12th for Mod asphalt racing, are all the current 1/12th's models all about the same in price and performance?

I'm not worried about parts that are available at me local hobby shop..

What's everyones top 3 recommended models?

Thanks for your time
Hey Tex
No such thing as a bad 12th scale these days
They are all great refined cars

Have a look here for more info
www.rctech.net/forum/california-racing/386766-12th-scale-racing-alive-well-so-cal.html
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 03:42 PM   #38488
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,377
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Active View Post
I was recently asking an expert about pan car design. I thought this piece of information he gave me was relevant:

The imaginary line between the pivot ball and the tyre contact patch defines the anti-squat. So, moving the pivot ball backward would increase anti-squat.

Have you taken any measurements of the pod lengths (pivot-ball to axle distance) of the various cars? I would be interested in seeing some comparisons.
Anti-squat in a 1/12 is a voodoo science. Yes, the line between the contact patch and pivot affects the anti-squat, but so do many other things. For instance, the motor spooling up on acceleration torques the pod into squat, which also changes based on where in the pod the motor sits... while but the pivot height changes as it squats/stands up and changes the overall anti-squat, which in turn changes other shit. If you can make sense of it you're better than me.
I will measure the difference in my XL and XTI, it's probably close to a half inch.
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #38489
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texco View Post
Hi ladies and gents,

Didnt see this 1/12 page...

Looking to buy myself my first 1/12th for Mod asphalt racing, are all the current 1/12th's models all about the same in price and performance?

I'm not worried about parts that are available at me local hobby shop..

What's everyones top 3 recommended models?

Thanks for your time
The best commonly available and well supported 1/12th cars for any surface (not in any order, all are good):

Associated RC12R5.2
SpeedMerchant Rev7
CRC Carpet Knife Xt or Xti

If you get the CRC Xti get the transverse battery kit for asphalt.

Everything else is not as well supported or are upgrade kits that need parts or a donor car.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 09:05 AM   #38490
Tech Fanatic
 
nrtv20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 879
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I have never seen a discussion of how the position of the motor inside of the pod affects the car handling... it would seem relevant because of the growing difference i pod length between various cars. My new CRC xti has a very short pod compared to the old Xi/XL pod dimensions, and in order to run my usual gear set I had to grind away a large amount of the football. I know moving the motor forward effectively removes unsprung weight, putting the weight on the center shock instead of just the rear tires, but does anybody know how that changes the car attitude aside from the age-old less unsprung weight is better argument?
http://www.redrc.net/2012/10/serpent...x-112th-scale/

Serpent just made a big change by moving the pivot ball 8mm forward
__________________
http://www.trautengineering.com/ http://www.toledooneeighthracers.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/nrtv20
One Eigth Racers of Toledo; Hobby Stop West Track; "The Gate" NORCAR
FUTABA 2.4G FASST, Spec-R S1, Speed Passion SP-1, Sakura D3 FWD, Kyosho Evolva M3, Team Losi XX-4, Caster EX1.5R, HPI Wheelie King Crawler, Quanum Aquaholic, Joysway Wildcat
nrtv20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (2 members and 5 guests)
antlockyer, robk
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:37 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0