R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-2012, 10:23 AM   #38461
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Not necessarily. The right amount of ackerman depends on a lot of different variables such as the car's yaw center, yaw angle, radius of the turn, etc. etc. For instance, dirt oval cars running through turns sidewise often use negative ackerman. A 1/12th tends to not be sidewise and has a high rear weight percentage meaning the yaw axis is well behind the front axle line. Combined with tight corners and you are going to want some ackerman. All that being said, I think most 1/12th cars probably have too much.
I agree. The last sentence was my point too.

I think there are feel and efficiency gains to be had from making the travel of the steering link pivot points on the same plane and more linear.

I would like to throw a T3 2011 dual bell crank setup on a 1/12th car to see what it does. I think we could more accurately control the ackermann, spindle rotation curve and its velocity with this setup.

I am also hoping to see an effective independent front suspension for pan cars soon. The BMI Copperhead front suspension worked really well and was really tough. It just never went mainstream. Hopefully Jason can continue to develop that.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:31 AM   #38462
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Singapore
Posts: 695
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
I agree. The last sentence was my point too.

I think there are feel and efficiency gains to be had from making the travel of the steering link pivot points on the same plane and more linear.

I would like to throw a T3 2011 dual bell crank setup on a 1/12th car to see what it does. I think we could more accurately control the ackermann, spindle rotation curve and its velocity with this setup.

I am also hoping to see an effective independent front suspension for pan cars soon. The BMI Copperhead front suspension worked really well and was really tough. It just never went mainstream. Hopefully Jason can continue to develop that.
Hi, check out this link from someone in Japan.

http://mtabe-blog.blogspot.sg/2011/04/r12-b.html

I think he mounted a BD5 steering on a R12 that is pretty cool.

And on a CRC

http://mtabe-blog.blogspot.sg/2011/04/crc-genxl5d.html
ongbenghui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:25 AM   #38463
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ongbenghui View Post
Hi, check out this link from someone in Japan.

http://mtabe-blog.blogspot.sg/2011/04/r12-b.html

I think he mounted a BD5 steering on a R12 that is pretty cool.

And on a CRC

http://mtabe-blog.blogspot.sg/2011/04/crc-genxl5d.html
Wow, that's exactly what i was thinking! Very nicely done.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #38464
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rapid City
Posts: 57
Default TUNING

Quote:
Originally Posted by slsspark View Post
I need some help, I have an old 1/12 and a CRC WGT car. They both have double steer or drive the slow hairpins really square. The fast sections are good. 1/12 is 17.5 blinky, white side springs, white center spring, heavy in the dampeners, kit oil in the shock, .018 spring in the 1/12, .55 in the WGT.

Any help would be appreciated.
Anyone?
slsspark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:11 AM   #38465
Tech Adept
 
btsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 132
Default

slsspark -- Proably best to post on a WGT thread or start a new thread, instead of in the 1/12 forum...
__________________
CRC Xi, Team Scream Revtech, Radiopost

Like others here before me - I race toy cars for fun. If I have to explain, you'll never understand. :D
btsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #38466
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slsspark View Post
I need some help, I have an old 1/12 and a CRC WGT car. They both have double steer or drive the slow hairpins really square. The fast sections are good. 1/12 is 17.5 blinky, white side springs, white center spring, heavy in the dampeners, kit oil in the shock, .018 spring in the 1/12, .55 in the WGT.

Any help would be appreciated.
This thread has a lot of links to setup and tuning guides. I'm sure you'll be able to find an answer to your problem there: 12th Scale Racing is Alive and Well in So Cal
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:02 PM   #38467
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Collie Western Australia.
Posts: 731
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Looking at purchasing one of these for my RC12R5

SKYRC TORO 1-2 Cell RC Sensored Brushless Motor 120A ESC Speed Controller SL780

it only has a 1A 6V Bec... will this be sufficient for a pancar? using a hitec servo
__________________
Just keep tellin her its cheaper than real cars.... safer too
Stangas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:15 PM   #38468
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,379
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangas View Post
Looking at purchasing one of these for my RC12R5

SKYRC TORO 1-2 Cell RC Sensored Brushless Motor 120A ESC Speed Controller SL780

it only has a 1A 6V Bec... will this be sufficient for a pancar? using a hitec servo
probably... don't sue me if it browns out your receiver when you turn in at the end of the longest straight and you go straight into the wall (like my touring car did)
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:22 PM   #38469
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Collie Western Australia.
Posts: 731
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

LMFAO...

maybe the hobbywing with the 2A bec might be a better option
__________________
Just keep tellin her its cheaper than real cars.... safer too
Stangas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:35 PM   #38470
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Just as an experiement I have been using the folowing with no issues so far

1s SMC 5000 50C Lipo
Hobbywing Just stock ESC
Futaba 3PM radio and R603fs radio
My Laps transponder
Futaba 9602 Servo

No Booster in the ESC

So far since the Mylaps transponder is good down to 2.7V and my reciever has not had any issues in practice we will see hot it fairs over a 8 min race.

I have a TQ booster Wired up just need to turn it on if I find any issues but testing so far has been promising.

My lap times are the same with the booster and without.

Also I have checked and the booster is not giving any voltage to the system when powered off by the switch.
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:16 PM   #38471
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

If you have the booster wired up turn it on and take a drive. You won't want to run with out it. The servo speed difference between 4.2v and 6v is HUGE.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:55 PM   #38472
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Collie Western Australia.
Posts: 731
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

it is not the voltage i am asking about, more the current draw.

the bec puts out 6v but only 1A
__________________
Just keep tellin her its cheaper than real cars.... safer too
Stangas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:57 PM   #38473
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangas View Post
Looking at purchasing one of these for my RC12R5

SKYRC TORO 1-2 Cell RC Sensored Brushless Motor 120A ESC Speed Controller SL780

it only has a 1A 6V Bec... will this be sufficient for a pancar? using a hitec servo
Might want to consider looking at a better servo.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 06:53 AM   #38474
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Yes Servo speed is the only drawback. but it's just interesting how good the tolerance of these electronics to still be able to run at lower voltages
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 07:34 AM   #38475
Tech Adept
 
btsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 132
Default

I've been running the Hobbyking/Turnigy version of this ESC for a few months in my CIC Xi. Revtech 17.5 motor, PowerPush Shorty 4200 lipo and JR 3650 servo. No problems that I'm aware of.
__________________
CRC Xi, Team Scream Revtech, Radiopost

Like others here before me - I race toy cars for fun. If I have to explain, you'll never understand. :D
btsai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:53 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0