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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 01-04-2012, 06:38 PM   #37471
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Thanks guys, good points been made. The AE 12R5.1 will be the best choice for me.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:24 AM   #37472
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Thats the best way to put it WES... its been said many of times.. Just because the pros are running it desnt mean its the best for you... i feel the same way about crc tires compared to jaco/parma... just a completely different feeling car to me..... same with bodies... i like the feel of the amr12.. in all classes..

jamesl

i know urdoing alot of tire research... heres some food for thought.. just because what ur reading they ran on the net or what u seen in results doesnt mean its all true....like the good old saying "dont judge a book by its cover" pretty much now a days tires and tires setup is the only thing setting these "pros" apart.. so why are they gonna give there little bit of edge... I mean i seen it with my own eyes local king of there local track on weekly races winner are going to the extend to actually removing the clor codes of one tire and switching them to another..(taking a mag dot and putting on a yellow)..sicking i know... best is i seen race scribe off the real pinion numbers and put in a new one so if it was looked at or tech when marshaling they see a completly different number then used....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Briscoe View Post
It can simply come down to personal feel as well. I don't like the CRC tires at all, my car feels inconsistent and weird on them. At the last big race I was at I literally went from a TQ car on Jaco's to a undrivable car that had to be pulled off the track with CRC's.

Which is why I think you gotta try everything and find what you like. Same goes for body, a lot of people run the CRC Audi at my club, I find it way too unstable and inconsistent.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:03 AM   #37473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Screw View Post

i know urdoing alot of tire research... heres some food for thought.. just because what ur reading they ran on the net or what u seen in results doesnt mean its all true....like the good old saying "dont judge a book by its cover" pretty much now a days tires and tires setup is the only thing setting these "pros" apart.. so why are they gonna give there little bit of edge... I mean i seen it with my own eyes local king of there local track on weekly races winner are going to the extend to actually removing the clor codes of one tire and switching them to another..(taking a mag dot and putting on a yellow)..sicking i know... best is i seen race scribe off the real pinion numbers and put in a new one so if it was looked at or tech when marshaling they see a completly different number then used....
I would rather loose a hard fought battle, than win by a country mile.

If we want RC and 12th scale to grow, the best thing to do is give everyone the best advice possible.

Steel sharpens steel as a friend of mine said a while back.

The small minded camp won't be happy till there is no one left to race against
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #37474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Screw View Post
i know urdoing alot of tire research... heres some food for thought.. just because what ur reading they ran on the net or what u seen in results doesnt mean its all true....like the good old saying "dont judge a book by its cover" pretty much now a days tires and tires setup is the only thing setting these "pros" apart.. so why are they gonna give there little bit of edge... I mean i seen it with my own eyes local king of there local track on weekly races winner are going to the extend to actually removing the clor codes of one tire and switching them to another..(taking a mag dot and putting on a yellow)..sicking i know... best is i seen race scribe off the real pinion numbers and put in a new one so if it was looked at or tech when marshaling they see a completly different number then used....
I don't know if it's the case in the USA, but in the UK I find that 12th scale drivers are by far the most helpful of any class of racing. If you ask for help or advice you get it, and to the best of their ability. I've even seen top guys rebuild cars for other people at the nationals.

Trev
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #37475
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Originally Posted by TrevCoult View Post
I don't know if it's the case in the USA, but in the UK I find that 12th scale drivers are by far the most helpful of any class of racing. If you ask for help or advice you get it, and to the best of their ability. I've even seen top guys rebuild cars for other people at the nationals.

Trev
I agree 100% I see the same thing at my track and at big events.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:05 PM   #37476
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Fortunately racers like that are the exception not the rule...in most cases the top drivers are more than willing to share information and help out where they can. But there still are a few here and there like that.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:07 PM   #37477
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You guys are absoulutly right...but there is thesick few .. you know.... i know i have rebuilt many cars and spent may own money to fix other racers cars so they could experince a good night of racering...
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:36 PM   #37478
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it was a while ago (quite awhile ago 20 years) at a state race have a miss hap with my equipment (went Missing) and a few of the guys got together and gathered up enough pieces we are talking radio, chassis, and support equipment so i could run the event used to have a strong 1/12 scene here but now everything is off-road or 1/10 TC its a 2+ hour drive just to find a place that run on carpet i have loaned out all kinds of stuff just to make sure guys can run
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:54 AM   #37479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
CRC import 4 bodies from Blackart
Bomb'R=less aggressive

R8c=more aggressive

R10 LMP=Balanced

And the latest iteration R12 Mowhawk. which is apparently an improvement on the Bomb'R

These are of course all modeled after the all mighty Audi Prototype Endurance cars.
I think you can be even more precise:

BA002 - R8C = Isn't that aggressive. Yes it has a lot of steering. And yes it has a lot of rotation. And I think it rotates the hardest of all bodies. But does not have an "initial high bite", like the BA004 does. Yes it holds a lot of corner speed, but I think that's because of the high rotation. This body normally is mounted like a extreme wedge. And does do good in Both Modified and Stock, but is mostly seen in Stock.

BA003 - R10 = This was an awesome boy for NIMH Racing. For Lipo I think it’s terrible. It looks wonderful, but feels like it has no rear grip, and lifts the inside wheel pretty fast (but I've not tested a lot with Lipo and this body). For NIMH it was almost the only body we where driving.

BA004 - Bomb R = This body has a lot of initial steering, but also a lot of lateral grip. I think it's a body that drives pretty easy, but is loosing some corner speed due the high initial steering it gives you. The body does do well in stock cause of the "grippy" feel it gives. This one is also seen in both modified in stock, but mostly in stock.

BA005 - Mohawk = I've also not tested this a lot with this one, but it feels like it's easier then all his older Black Art brothers. Will come back on this one.

Protoform - AMR This is a cool body. I think it has a progressive steering curve. On high speed it doesn't have that much steering, and therefore looks like it doesn't have that much initial steering. But when slowing down, it starts to generate more and more steering. So due the "low" initial steering it doesn't tent to grip roll and keeps a lot of corner speed. I think it's really easy body that's suits a lot of tracks from high to low grip, but can feel a bit "under steered" compared to the Black Art family.

Parma - Speed 8HD = This one feels really like the Protoform AMR, but has more of a linear steering Curve. It has a little bit more initial, on high speed compared to the AMR, but has a little les steering on low speed compared to the AMR. This is a really good body for Modified on grippy tracks because it feels like it keeps a lot of corner speed. But I then again this body will also give you the "under steered" feeling, a thiny bit more then the AMR compared to the Black Art family.

What you also need to keep in mind. The Black Art bodies are really really light and there for really thin Lexan. They tent to crack pretty easy. I always reinforce my bodies at the front with some extra lexan or tape. Parma has the thickest bodies and have a really long lifetime, but are heavy. Protoform is just a bit in between. (Parma and PF do both have Light Weight bodies, these are also thin)

Then again all of this is just a feeling, just my feeling and can feel a lot different to other drivers. I've tested a lot of these bodies back to back with other drivers, and we all came to almost the same feeling, but maybe us European racers are just strange

Regards Robert
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:03 PM   #37480
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I wanted to discuss reactive caster with you guys.

I have been doing a lot of testing on the carpet track here in Dallas with my 17.5 12th(12R5.2). I seem to have finally found a good tire combo and saucing routine that keeps the car consistent enough over 8 mins. And Ive gotten the rollout and timing in the ballpark. I have a basic setup that is pretty decent. It isn't doing anything that I dont particularly like, it seems to handle quite well.

But given that I am pretty new to 12th carpet, I have been making small changes to see how they affect the handling... and to see if they can result in quicker lap times.

Today, during the last session, I went to from 5* reactive caster to 0*. I kept the static caster the same(3.25*) and readjusted the toe and camber to my previous settings.

I was under the impression that reducing the reactive caster would smooth the car out and make it a bit more mellow? Maybe I had my facts wrong.... either way, it seemed to do the exact opposite. It made the car much more nervous and it felt unstable especially at higher speeds.

Any thoughts on the handling traits I observed?


Edit: Well... nevermind I guess. After making the reactive caster change, I had a decent shunt on the 2nd lap. Hard enough that the motor shifted slightly in the pod and I had to reset the gear mesh before heading back out. I just went over the car more thoroughly and it turns out I snapped the thru shaft on the side shock... not only was there no lateral damping, but it was preventing the pod from pivoting more than halfway in left hand turns.

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Old 01-06-2012, 08:16 PM   #37481
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This would work for 1/12 right? http://teamnovak.com/products/esc/17...ex.html?pp=10&
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:37 PM   #37482
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The first run i made with mr crc xi, i had white front/rear with stx(i think its called that) sauce with a bone stock xi with a duo3 17.5 i was hitting lap times of 20 seconds with no body. I will never go back to tc!! I cant wait till i get my body so i will be a tad faster maybe true the tires.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:29 AM   #37483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_K View Post
but maybe us European racers are just strange

Regards Robert
Nope Robert it is only you that is strange haha
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #37484
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Recently my 1/12 has been "Square'ing up" corners if you know what I mean .. the car enters the corner well and about mid corner the rear looses traction, slides a bit and centers itself on corner exit, resulting in loss of corner-speed.

What is this a sign of? I've been messing around with front and rear track width, camber and tweak and have not found the issue yet .. Anyone have suggestions for this behavior?
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:01 PM   #37485
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Anyone know what kind of downforce levels 12th scale bodies actually produce because the corner speeds are just unreal..

was just watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht5DkO33wgI

it's just mind boggling how fast those corner are taken.
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