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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 12-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #37336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
Would like to mellow the car out a little and have it track straight a little better and be a little smoother
Try a little front toe-IN. Yes that's right, I said IN. Mellows things out a little.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:21 PM   #37337
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Originally Posted by superspeed View Post
There used to be a company called PTI, they made pan cars 1/10 and 1/12. I recall they had a tweak station which was essentially four eletronic/digital scales with a setup board connecting all the scales. It was more accurate but not as popular as MIP tweakboard. Pan car setup time is pretty short, there is a routine that I used before every run/race. As long as you stay clean throughout the race with small hit/contact with board or other cars, the tweak should not be messed up throughout the race. But it is necessary to check it each time before the run.


2 scales the one I use
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...roducts_id=264
4 scales for the cross weight racer
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1685
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:15 PM   #37338
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Any tips or tricks to setting front toe and camber on one of these little monsters? Was going to just use a camber gauge and level but thought I'd ask here first

Thanks. Eric Lee
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:30 PM   #37339
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Any tips or tricks to setting front toe and camber on one of these little monsters? Was going to just use a camber gauge and level but thought I'd ask here first

Thanks. Eric Lee
Set toe to 0. If you need more turn in use toe out. If you need more steering in corner use little toe in. Layman's camber setting is so tires wear even so start with 1 degree camber on average
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:35 PM   #37340
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In terms of rear-pod suspension, I have seen the typical method that nearly all 1/12 scale uses with the pivot ball, shock, side dampener and springs, and the three-link suspension that I saw on a Pro-10 car which featured a full-floating rear pod with three links and a panhard bar with suspension being provided by two smallish shocks. It occurred to me that I have never seen somebody try both, to have the third center link of the 3-link be a shock and allow the heavy rear pod motion in three axis, up/down, axial twist, and radial twist. Has this ever been tried? It sounds massively complex but could be dynamite for stability.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:35 AM   #37341
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Quote:
In terms of rear-pod suspension, I have seen the typical method that nearly all 1/12 scale uses with the pivot ball, shock, side dampener and springs, and the three-link suspension that I saw on a Pro-10 car which featured a full-floating rear pod with three links and a panhard bar with suspension being provided by two smallish shocks. It occurred to me that I have never seen somebody try both, to have the third center link of the 3-link be a shock and allow the heavy rear pod motion in three axis, up/down, axial twist, and radial twist. Has this ever been tried? It sounds massively complex but could be dynamite for stability.
I thought about doing something similar for a 1/10 pancar. With sliding center link, 2-sidelinks (at the top of pod) and 2 shocks, you have a lot of advantages over a panhard 4-link suspension.

1. You can see where your rollcenter is :-)
2. Pod droop is adjustable without affecting rollcenter
3. No sidemotion of the pod
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:42 AM   #37342
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I am having a problem with my xl hooking/spinning and/or diffing out in one direction (fast right turns past 90). The car tweaks level (both on a station with the coins)and is balanced. Tubes have fresh grease and the rear springs are fairly new. I cant feel any binding in the rear pod.

Worked on it all day Saturday but could not get it fixed. What should I start checking? I thought maybe a weak front spring??
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:56 AM   #37343
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
I am having a problem with my xl hooking/spinning and/or diffing out in one direction (fast right turns past 90). The car tweaks level (both on a station with the coins)and is balanced. Tubes have fresh grease and the rear springs are fairly new. I cant feel any binding in the rear pod.

Worked on it all day Saturday but could not get it fixed. What should I start checking? I thought maybe a weak front spring??
Check the front springs (I'd replace them every week), and make sure that they are roughly the same height. They would need to have the same amount of preload (or droop, if that's what you prefer) to allow the car to turn to either side equally. Make sure that there's nothing binding in the front suspension (kingpins, pivot balls, etc.) that could make the car transfer weight improperly. Other things to check include:

- steering symmetry (steering lock should be equal to both sides - you might be getting more throw to the right than the left).
- make sure that the rear axle is centered in the rear pod. Use axle shims to center the axle, and don't be shocked if there are more shims on one side to center things properly.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:58 AM   #37344
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327 View Post
Check the front springs (I'd replace them every week), and make sure that they are roughly the same height. They would need to have the same amount of preload (or droop, if that's what you prefer) to allow the car to turn to either side equally. Make sure that there's nothing binding in the front suspension (kingpins, pivot balls, etc.) that could make the car transfer weight improperly. Other things to check include:

- steering symmetry (steering lock should be equal to both sides - you might be getting more throw to the right than the left).
- make sure that the rear axle is centered in the rear pod. Use axle shims to center the axle, and don't be shocked if there are more shims on one side to center things properly.
Thanks B.

Springs were my next move. As you know
the car is fairly "close"...I just can't drive it hard like this.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #37345
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Some questions for you veteran 12th scalers:

1) How often do you replace your front springs? Obviously when they start to show a difference in overall length they need to be changed... But do you guys wait until that occurs? Or do you have a ritual, ie: every 2 race weekends, etc?

2) What about side springs? I imagine these are less prone to collapsing/changing length... but I could be wrong.

3) Do you guys use standard steel diff balls? Or the carbide/tungsten balls? What is your typical rebuild interval?

4) Anyone tried these front kingpins? They seem like they would make life very easy when it comes to dialing in the front end.... Would they work with the R5 front? --> http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...roducts_id=851

5) This question deals with setting up the AE R5 front end... and trying to get the front axles at the same height above the ground.

Ive been reading Mark Payne's blog and he notes the importance of the front axles being at the same height. He shows pics of how you should sand/file the lower arms to obtain equal axle height. However, with the 12R5, the lower suspension arms don't mount directly to the chassis, but instead to an aluminum bulkhead. Thus, the lower arms don't seem to influence the height of the axle much. Am I correct in this assumption?

My right front axle is ~27.6mm above the ground, with the car sitting on my droop blocks. The left front axle is ~28.3mm above the ground. The front end components are 100% new except for the lower arm and lower pivot balls(car was bought used). Is it likely that this discrepancy in axle height could be caused by worn lower arm/pivot ball?

If not, how should I go about addressing the differencing in height?


Thanks fellas... this thread(and the AE 12R5.1 thread) have been a huge help this past week
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:19 AM   #37346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
In terms of rear-pod suspension, I have seen the typical method that nearly all 1/12 scale uses with the pivot ball, shock, side dampener and springs, and the three-link suspension that I saw on a Pro-10 car which featured a full-floating rear pod with three links and a panhard bar with suspension being provided by two smallish shocks. It occurred to me that I have never seen somebody try both, to have the third center link of the 3-link be a shock and allow the heavy rear pod motion in three axis, up/down, axial twist, and radial twist. Has this ever been tried? It sounds massively complex but could be dynamite for stability.
There's a guy here in the UK (Paul Lomas) that has developed a really nice chassis. I had a good look at it and it would be very hard to explain in words how it works! Er, I will have a go though! Basically, instead of having a main chassis and a rear pod, there are actually 3 parts to the chassis. The main part (the LiPo gets inserted into the chassis from underneath), the rear pod part and another part between them. I think the idea is that the forward and back motion from the shock is completed independant of the left to right motion of the side dampers. I also noticed that the axle goes straight up and down rather than having an arc motion like on regular chassis's. Anyway, one of the guys that know him, and his car, might be able to pitch in and explain how it works better, but it does look the business!
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #37347
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
I am having a problem with my xl hooking/spinning and/or diffing out in one direction (fast right turns past 90). The car tweaks level (both on a station with the coins)and is balanced. Tubes have fresh grease and the rear springs are fairly new. I cant feel any binding in the rear pod.

Worked on it all day Saturday but could not get it fixed. What should I start checking? I thought maybe a weak front spring??
My 12R5 was doing the same thing "diffing out" on hard RH turns. Almost completely disassembled the chassis looking for the problem. The only thing I found was a front bearing that didn't roll as smooth as the rest. As I was putting the body back on I just happened to have my hand on the rear pod and noticed it did not move freely. As it turns out the motor wires were slightly being compresed by the body with all the body clips installed. I raised the body one hole on the body posts and the problem was solved. Set the fast lap the next weekend.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:38 PM   #37348
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Originally Posted by pettyeagles View Post


My 12R5 was doing the same thing "diffing out" on hard RH turns. Almost completely disassembled the chassis looking for the problem. The only thing I found was a front bearing that didn't roll as smooth as the rest. As I was putting the body back on I just happened to have my hand on the rear pod and noticed it did not move freely. As it turns out the motor wires were slightly being compresed by the body with all the body clips installed. I raised the body one hole on the body posts and the problem was solved. Set the fast lap the next weekend.
I will give it a lookover.
Thanks.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:53 PM   #37349
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Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Some questions for you veteran 12th scalers:

1) How often do you replace your front springs? Obviously when they start to show a difference in overall length they need to be changed... But do you guys wait until that occurs? Or do you have a ritual, ie: every 2 race weekends, etc?

AE springs, every other race. CRC springs, every season.

2) What about side springs? I imagine these are less prone to collapsing/changing length... but I could be wrong.

When I think there might be a problem

3) Do you guys use standard steel diff balls? Or the carbide/tungsten balls? What is your typical rebuild interval?

Ceramic. Only way to fly. Rebuild when it feels rough.

4) Anyone tried these front kingpins? They seem like they would make life very easy when it comes to dialing in the front end.... Would they work with the R5 front? --> http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...roducts_id=851

The machined in spring cup is for larger springs. Also they are longer. Brilliant for 10th oval cars.

5) This question deals with setting up the AE R5 front end... and trying to get the front axles at the same height above the ground.

Ive been reading Mark Payne's blog and he notes the importance of the front axles being at the same height. He shows pics of how you should sand/file the lower arms to obtain equal axle height. However, with the 12R5, the lower suspension arms don't mount directly to the chassis, but instead to an aluminum bulkhead. Thus, the lower arms don't seem to influence the height of the axle much. Am I correct in this assumption?

My right front axle is ~27.6mm above the ground, with the car sitting on my droop blocks. The left front axle is ~28.3mm above the ground. The front end components are 100% new except for the lower arm and lower pivot balls(car was bought used). Is it likely that this discrepancy in axle height could be caused by worn lower arm/pivot ball?

Yes

If not, how should I go about addressing the differencing in height?


Thanks fellas... this thread(and the AE 12R5.1 thread) have been a huge help this past week
Answers in red.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:12 PM   #37350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
I am having a problem with my xl hooking/spinning and/or diffing out in one direction (fast right turns past 90). The car tweaks level (both on a station with the coins)and is balanced. Tubes have fresh grease and the rear springs are fairly new. I cant feel any binding in the rear pod.

Worked on it all day Saturday but could not get it fixed. What should I start checking? I thought maybe a weak front spring??
Check that you don't have too much pre-load on one of the rear springs. If one is pre-loaded slightly, the car will spin out in one direction, and turn perfectly in the other.
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