R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-13-2011, 11:54 AM   #37306
Tech Master
 
superspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,148
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

There used to be a company called PTI, they made pan cars 1/10 and 1/12. I recall they had a tweak station which was essentially four eletronic/digital scales with a setup board connecting all the scales. It was more accurate but not as popular as MIP tweakboard. Pan car setup time is pretty short, there is a routine that I used before every run/race. As long as you stay clean throughout the race with small hit/contact with board or other cars, the tweak should not be messed up throughout the race. But it is necessary to check it each time before the run.
superspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:15 PM   #37307
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,377
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Isn't it funny how no matter how fast you go in 1/12 scale, dirt slingers never have anything good to say about it. They think we just pin the throttle and twiddle the wheel.
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 06:40 AM   #37308
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Isn't it funny how no matter how fast you go in 1/12 scale, dirt slingers never have anything good to say about it. They think we just pin the throttle and twiddle the wheel.
Ok where is the "LOVE" button
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 06:48 AM   #37309
Tech Elite
 
defcone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,335
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Isn't it funny how no matter how fast you go in 1/12 scale, dirt slingers never have anything good to say about it. They think we just pin the throttle and twiddle the wheel.
Definitely have heard that.
defcone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:40 AM   #37310
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,117
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
I use 2 scales, bar and level surface.
When I'm happy with the droop, camber, chassis height and level, etc..
I then set up my weight station.
I set my front tires on the scales, rear on a equal height bar and weight the front end to see the difference. At this point make sure the dampening tubes are off and side springs are backed off. If there is a difference in weight on the front tires move your electronics around.
I never use the side springs to tweek the car.
I typically run the side springs off the lower rear pod. I can set that by using the scales once the "tweek" is set by moving the electronics around.
I'll bring the springs down till the scales change a gram or 2 then set the other spring the same way. At that point they are just touching. I then back them off equally 1/2 turn.

Hope this helps,
Wayne
Thanks for the info.

At this point, one of the confusing things is also that everyone seems to have their own way setting up and tweaking 12th scale cars. With sedans, things are pretty simple and straight forward.



I have one more question.... When you guys put your car on the tweak board, do you put the front or rear on the balance/floating beam side?
JamesL_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:45 AM   #37311
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Thanks for the info.

At this point, one of the confusing things is also that everyone seems to have their own way setting up and tweaking 12th scale cars. With sedans, things are pretty simple and straight forward.

I have one more question.... When you guys put your car on the tweak board, do you put the front or rear on the balance/floating beam side?
Front however best way to tweak 12th is to set ride height then on flat surface from the back lift up the low part and center of the pod and look for which wheel lifts up first then adjust tweak screws

It's fast, simple and free
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:59 AM   #37312
sg1
Tech Elite
 
sg1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,782
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Thanks for the info.

At this point, one of the confusing things is also that everyone seems to have their own way setting up and tweaking 12th scale cars. With sedans, things are pretty simple and straight forward.



I have one more question.... When you guys put your car on the tweak board, do you put the front or rear on the balance/floating beam side?
I personally don't use a "tweek board/bar".
Once mine is set with scales it's good.

When I did use a tweek bar it was to check the return of the rear pod, not tweek the car. I was raising and lowering the springs to change the "dead spot" (space between the spring and lower pod plate).
__________________
**Team Scream**Parma/PSE**TQ Wire**Roche**Pemberton**BSR**Graupner/GM**SXT**
sg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 09:07 AM   #37313
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

I liek to use the quarter method but I use male deans connestors as I can get more weight on the wheel to move it giving me more accurate determination of which wheel is lighter weighted


Remember to check the front suspension for even droop first!!!! Very Important


Then what I do is set ride height. push the car down a couple of times to settle the suspension (front and rear)

then placing the deans on the wheels as far forward as I can with out them falling off

and slowly pry up the front using a sharp tipped screw driver or dental tool in the exact middle of the chassis.

then if for example the left side drops first then tighten the opposite side spring tighter by no more then 1/4 turn


Also to calm down my car I usually add about 1/2 turn of preload on the springs.
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 09:17 AM   #37314
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
I liek to use the quarter method but I use male deans connestors as I can get more weight on the wheel to move it giving me more accurate determination of which wheel is lighter weighted


Remember to check the front suspension for even droop first!!!! Very Important


Then what I do is set ride height. push the car down a couple of times to settle the suspension (front and rear)

then placing the deans on the wheels as far forward as I can with out them falling off

and slowly pry up the front using a sharp tipped screw driver or dental tool in the exact middle of the chassis.

then if for example the left side drops first then tighten the opposite side spring tighter by no more then 1/4 turn


Also to calm down my car I usually add about 1/2 turn of preload on the springs.
Never understood why people would put extra effort into replacing coins when they can just lift back up and see the space between rear tires and surface?
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 09:20 AM   #37315
sg1
Tech Elite
 
sg1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,782
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
Never understood why people would put extra effort into replacing coins when they can just lift back up and see the space between rear tires and surface?
bad eyes, old age....
__________________
**Team Scream**Parma/PSE**TQ Wire**Roche**Pemberton**BSR**Graupner/GM**SXT**
sg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 09:30 AM   #37316
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
bad eyes, old age....
Oh I forgot about the elder factor
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 10:00 AM   #37317
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,117
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Ok... thanks.

How's this for a setup procedure:

1) Get car balanced left to right on balance pins
2) Check front axle height w/ calipers(Mark Payne style)
3) Set pod droop
4) Set ride height with a fresh set of equal/trued tires
5) Set front camber/toe
6) Recheck ride height
7) Check front droop w/ quarter/coin-drop method
8) Check rear tweak by picking the car up from the center of the rear pod
9) Put car on tweak board to double check accuracy of #7 and 8 above


Sound good? Any thing out of order?
JamesL_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 10:09 AM   #37318
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Ok... thanks.

How's this for a setup procedure:

1) Get car balanced left to right on balance pins
2) Check front axle height w/ calipers(Mark Payne style)
3) Set pod droop
4) Set ride height with a fresh set of equal/trued tires
5) Set front camber/toe
6) Recheck ride height
7) Check front droop w/ quarter/coin-drop method
8) Check rear tweak by picking the car up from the center of the rear pod
9) Put car on tweak board to double check accuracy of #7 and 8 above


Sound good? Any thing out of order?
No need to check ft and back tweak just one or the other and I have only used the back method

Tweak board is really just for checking the return to center which by the way some say to have it not return fully but almost. This is probably dependent on setup and personal preference of how you want the car to handle

IMHO

Edit:

And you can check pod droop simply by lifting up the shock and see how far it raises. No coins necessary for ft droop just look at any sag in between the bottom of steering block and ballcup in lower arm like maybe .1mm or .2mm. You can see the sag by slowly lifting the ft up till the sag is gone and that is your ft droop
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...

Last edited by Infinite 12th; 12-14-2011 at 10:30 AM.
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 02:05 PM   #37319
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
No need to check ft and back tweak just one or the other and I have only used the back method

Tweak board is really just for checking the return to center which by the way some say to have it not return fully but almost. This is probably dependent on setup and personal preference of how you want the car to handle

IMHO

Edit:

And you can check pod droop simply by lifting up the shock and see how far it raises. No coins necessary for ft droop just look at any sag in between the bottom of steering block and ballcup in lower arm like maybe .1mm or .2mm. You can see the sag by slowly lifting the ft up till the sag is gone and that is your ft droop


Wow, we really look at set-up differently!!!

Checking both front and rear tweak can show you potential problems in your chassis. If the front tweaks flat, but the rear is off, or vice-versa, then you have a problem some where. Possibly more droop on one side of the front end, or a bound up side link, etc.

I also look at sag and droop as two different things. Front droop to me, is the gap between spring and pivot ball. Sag is how far the suspension settles into the springs when race ready.

In the rear sag is running the center of the chassis lower than the front-end, and rear edge of the pod plate. Droop is unsprung down travel of the rear pod.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 03:32 PM   #37320
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,117
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
If the front tweaks flat, but the rear is off, or vice-versa, then you have a problem some where. Possibly more droop on one side of the front end, or a bound up side link, etc.
Thanks for the info...

Question about the above scenario. If the front tweaks flat with the coin method, wouldn't that indicate even front droop between left/right sides, provided the car is balanced?
JamesL_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (1 members and 4 guests)
TOADYY
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:03 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0