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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 09-30-2011, 08:31 AM   #36526
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
What puts off some Taxi racers is the foam tires we have, and dealing with a truer and chunking.

That, and the myth that the lumbering Cadillacs are somehow easier to drive

We've got nearly 400 entries at iic next week.
On Road Racing is alive and well.
Alas, I don't think that is a myth in most club racing cases. The 4wd TCs w/ front spools are much easier to drive on low traction parking lot surfaces.

On high bite carpet, it is debateable though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
I found this and thought is it true that TC has killed turn out at races?

I'm actually interested in TC in the future as to learn more about Sedans but this short article has some interesting points that the TC has made rc enthusiasts bummed out because of how complex they are and because of the TC phenomenon 12th got killed or has less interest and so forth thus when people go to see 12th it isn't there cause TC took over hence this article is kinda true through a certain perspective
Here is my take on it, as someone who is getting back into the hobby after a 7 year hiatus.

I raced gas onroad competitively from ~96-04. Both 1/10th 2wd(235mm) and 1/10th 4wd sedan(200mm). I was racing gas sedan right when it started "breaking" onto the national scene. And I was at the Roar Nats both years when we had over 140 entries in that class alone(with bump ups, we had thru a Q main one year!).

Im used to the plethora of adjustments that come with touring cars. When I got back in to RC about 3 months ago, I did a lot of research beforehand. Since I didn't have a pit guy any longer, I wanted to get into electric. Naturally a TC was an obvious choice since I had plenty of experience with gas TC... and it was pretty much the only class we consistently have a lot of entries in, week in and week out, at my local track.

After building a TC6 and practicing and racing for a few weekends, there are a few things that surprise me about this class.

1) Yes, the complexity and number of adjustments. You really have to be familliar with vehicle dynamics to know exactly how roll center changes and roll couple distances affect car handling thru the various stages of a corner. Gone are the days of caster/camber/toe/ride height being the only adjustments outside of the shocks... We have A LOT to work with nowadays. Which is great, especially for those who like to tinker and test. But I imagine it can be very overwhelming for newcomers.

2) Cost. These cars were never dirt cheap... but they certainly seem to be much more expensive than I remember. 10 years ago, a $500 TC kit was unheard of. Now, it seems to be the norm outside of one or two exceptions.

3) Maintentance. Obviously, from racing gas onroad I am used to a fair amount of maintenance. But between chassis tweak needing to be reset every round, slop developing in the suspension parts and hub bearings, and things getting out of alignment... these cars require a good deal of maintenance to keep them in tip-top condition. Maintenance requires time and money.

4) Ease of operation. I don't remember my gas TCs being this easy to drive. Sure I have a fair amount of rust after not holding a tx for over 5 years... but within a few battery packs, most of it was coming back to me. Box stock, the TC6 was very easy to drive. Sure, the car wasn't dialed in and turning lap record times... but it was easy to drive. And the easier a car is to drive, the more confidence it inspires.


I used to race 1/12 on and off back in the day too... And if we had a consistent turnout and made the class every week, I would have picked up a 1/12 and not the TC6. As it sits now, I have purchased a used RC12R5.1 and will be prepping it to run locally when we have enough guys. When I opened the box, I immediately smiled ear to ear, as I was reminded of how simple 1/12 cars are... and how much cheaper they are to run/maintain.

Onroad seems to be picking up again in popularity. And now that the speed control wars seem to be over, and now that we have established a stable "stock" class, TC seems to be attracting more people again. But looking at the entries to the big carpet races(IIC for instance), 1/12th is not far behind TC. Especially in the stock classes... almost 50 entries for 17.5 blinky 1/12th is fantastic!

I do not, however, think TC is killing 1/12th. I think the two classes go hand in hand. One emphasizes complex chassis setup and motor selection/gearing/tuning, and the other emphasizes tire selection and smoothness/clean driving. The two classes are different, that is all there is to it. TC has more scale looks and is easier to throw down on a dusty parking lot track with a boxstock setup and turn quick laps.

And given that almost ALL the major manufacturers are producing competitive 1/12 kits makes it even easier to enter the class. The problem I see with 1/12 is the patience it takes to get acquainted with the class. Between driving a 2wd car and the differences in the setup, there is a relatively steep learning curve associated with 1/12th scale. That is not to say that newbies won't fair well in the class... but one shouldnt expect to drop the car on the track with the kit setup and some random tires and drive it like a 4wd TC.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:58 AM   #36527
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
What puts off some Taxi racers is the foam tires we have, and dealing with a truer and chunking.

That, and the myth that the lumbering Cadillacs are somehow easier to drive

We've got nearly 400 entries at iic next week.
On Road Racing is alive and well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Alas, I don't think that is a myth in most club racing cases. The 4wd TCs w/ front spools are much easier to drive on low traction parking lot surfaces.

On high bite carpet, it is debateable though.
This was in reference to indoor racing.

Taxis are better for dusty conditions, no argument there.

17.5 blinky 12th scale goes where you point it, when you point it.
It's almost to easy
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:24 AM   #36528
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
17.5 blinky 12th scale goes where you point it, when you point it.
It's almost to easy
It's like watching paint dry, grass grow, or fleas fall off a dog.
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:45 AM   #36529
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It's like watching paint dry, grass grow, or fleas fall off a dog.
lol...Yea not sure I want to race 17.5 in 12th. One of the great things about 12th mod is it's hella fast.

I like gearing up 1 tooth over what everyone else is geared for a little "fly by" on the straight

What I really want is to see is every 12th car out their in the A main and they are all slicing and dicing

Thanks for your comments JamesL_71 and RBF
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:45 AM   #36530
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The learning curve for 1/12 is kinda steep, especially if the new guys have less-than-ideal equipment. We have had two guys get used 1/12 cars (which were well setup) and just drop them on the track, thinking that they could wheel it and probably had visions of beating up on the regulars, but obviously couldn't. They are both good offroad racers, but with our fast crew dicing it up for TQ I think they got the wrong impression being lapped by somebody every 15 seconds on average. It happened to me the first few times I tried this, and I only got good at it after I got the correct tires and put a sane setup on the car, but I did a lot of losing before I did any winning.

Now that I think about it, I haven't won in over a month, I got second in the A main four weeks in a row. Its okay though, the guys I lost to were pretty good. My response to this may have been overkill: I bought a whole new car.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:04 AM   #36531
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The learning curve for 1/12 is kinda steep, especially if the new guys have less-than-ideal equipment. We have had two guys get used 1/12 cars (which were well setup) and just drop them on the track, thinking that they could wheel it and probably had visions of beating up on the regulars, but obviously couldn't. They are both good offroad racers, but with our fast crew dicing it up for TQ I think they got the wrong impression being lapped by somebody every 15 seconds on average. It happened to me the first few times I tried this, and I only got good at it after I got the correct tires and put a sane setup on the car, but I did a lot of losing before I did any winning.

Now that I think about it, I haven't won in over a month, I got second in the A main four weeks in a row. Its okay though, the guys I lost to were pretty good. My response to this may have been overkill: I bought a whole new car.
Maybe driving 12th might take getting used to for new people but the cars are just way easier to deal with than 2wd off road or TC and it is not uncommon for a certain 12th setup to work at many tracks

I like .018 but most everyone has .020 on their cars
Caster is always around 5 degrees and camber is just to wear tires even
I mean set the side and top springs and your kinda done humbly speaking

lol

p.s.

You should take some pics of your next race of the cars and drivers

I had a lot of fun racing at the carpet track in tucson and I still can't remember the name of the really tall old guy that was totally into 12th there

Last edited by Infinite 12th; 09-30-2011 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:16 AM   #36532
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It's like watching paint dry, grass grow, or fleas fall off a dog.
Yeah true

But last week we had a pretty thrilling race where 3 of us were within a few millimeters for 8 mins, true side by side racing, and the crowd loved every min of it !

I'm so used to having the rip to make a pass stick in boosted, blinky is a lot of waiting and hoping for a mistake.
Fun in a different way, and a bit frustrating at times as well.

I want to see if we can have a go at 13.5 blinky this winter for club racing, might be a good option for an expert 12th class.
Mod is fun, but we haven't had the interest in the class I hoped for.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:20 AM   #36533
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Yeah true

But last week we had a pretty thrilling race where 3 of us were within a few millimeters for 8 mins, true side by side racing, and the crowd loved every min of it !

I'm so used to having the rip to make a pass stick in boosted, blinky is a lot of waiting and hoping for a mistake.
Fun in a different way, and a bit frustrating at times as well.

I want to see if we can have a go at 13.5 blinky this winter for club racing, might be a good option for an expert 12th class.
Mod is fun, but we haven't had the interest in the class I hoped for.
Do you use your LRP SXXv2 for blinky? 13.5/17.5

Yes I like the rip too...lol

That's what makes 12th awesome is that they are ridiculously fast and pretty much lap even the fastest TC cars

In time I will give you some mod action to race against probably by February
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:10 PM   #36534
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Do you use your LRP SXXv2 for blinky? 13.5/17.5

Yes I like the rip too...lol

That's what makes 12th awesome is that they are ridiculously fast and pretty much lap even the fastest TC cars

In time I will give you some mod action to race against probably by February
I did last week, due to a last minute class change.
Installed Blinky setup in the new 5.2

I think that was the 2nd blinky race I have run this year at TQ
But it was kind of fun.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:26 PM   #36535
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I have a nice 1/12th scale custom airbrushed body in the consignment case at West Coast. I just dropped the price ten bucks its a naoto custom... looks sweet trying to get some gas money for my trip to the grand canyon before my wife goes back to work.
Check it out the next time you are there.
Thanks
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:31 PM   #36536
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I've been having fun trying to learn how to drive 1/12 13.5. And I've been getting my butt kicked every week but I know once I get it down packed I'll see some podium.

I have learned that not all 13.5's are the same. I'm using a Losi 13.5 with a TEKIN RS

I also learned that wire placement is very very important stay away from 12 gauge even wet noodle deans you can really tweak your setup badly. I'm waiting on a order from TQ now.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:12 PM   #36537
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12 gauge in a 1/12 is overkill.

I like using 16 or 18 gauge and TQ's sensor cable.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:29 PM   #36538
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I may be wrong on this but...my understanding it is to get even dampening left and right. With a single damper to get the same angle on the damper on both the left and right of the pod it would have to be attached to the center of the pod but that throws the weight off on the car unless you do something like what 3Racing did on their F109 which attaches the center of the damper to the center of the pod. If you attach a damper off-set to one side so that the damper can be centered then the arc in which the pod end of the damper moves is different from left to right. Using 2 damper tubes instead takes a lot of geometry out of trying to figure out where to mount the damper.
Almost there - the reason a single damper is not preferred is that the amount of damping changes left to right. As the damper piston withdraws from the cylinder you get less damping area, and as it goes into the cylinder you get more. With two dampers you get the same damping all the time - as one piston withdraws the other enters, so the overall damping area is unchanged. The angles are no more of a worry than on the centre shock, but the area of damping is the concern. HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
So they were using something like diff-lock then? What were the tube guys using on their tubes? 100K? How heavy were the springs they were using?

I use 20wt on most tracks and if the grip gets real high I may use 40wt but so far I have not found a track with grip that high. However, I race my AE in 17.5 open boost class so maybe a 4.5 puts higher side loads on the chassis. I don't know.
The word 'lock' is misleading. The word 'pack' is more appropriate. When the car starts to roll, thicker oils require more energy to get moving past the piston, so the car momentarily 'stops' rolling while the energy builds up to get the chassis on the move. With thinner oils, this is not a problem. I use the standard shock with 20wt and no problems. With such little movement in the shock, anything over 30wt is going to give you that problem.

Sometimes the roll rate is mistaken for the rear when it is the front that is the culprit. If you want less roll, stiffen up the side springs, not the oil. Oil and springs must be matched,otherwise the car will not snap out of turns straight, and will be lazy in chicanes.

Side dampers don't suffer from this problem, and it why they are coming back into fashion with various chassis alternatives available. However, they need more work and they are less consistent from one rebuild to the other for the average driver. HTH
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:40 PM   #36539
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Speaking of wiring...

It seems 16g is the most common wire for 17.5 blinky 12th, both for the motor and the battery wires.

Does 16g work fine for 13.5 boost? Ive seen some setups that have 16g on the motor and what looks to be 13 or 14g for the batt? Will 16g all around cut it?
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:57 PM   #36540
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16g wire is fine for 13.5 boost.

I've seen some guys use 16g for the battery wires also, but I prefer 14 or 13g wire there, just makes me feel better.
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