R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-20-2011, 01:23 AM   #36196
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Partly right partly not right...A flat servo will have more bump steer but the toe-in gained from the bump steer will make the car less aggressive in steering. Additionally the flat servo will have less ackerman than the angled servo. So you have your toes backward...toe-in will make the car more mellow where toe-out will make it more aggressive.
Depends on the level of bite....On Carpet, bump-toe on the outside front wheel makes the car steer in more off-power. The weight transfer to the front-end makes the outside wheel turn in harder, inducing MORE steering. If the car has the ability to "drift" across the track,i.e. "low-bite/asphalt", the car won't feel the same turn-in effect. Hence the reason that alot of MOD carpet racers run the servo flat, while stock racers have generally tended to prefer servo up. Mod REQUIRES more turn-in because of the greatly enhanced speeds.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2011, 04:26 AM   #36197
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Given that 1/12th in general uses a very small amount of it's possible travel then it would be better to run angled to get the increased ackerman and increase the steering throw to equal the amount of the outside wheel under load without the ackerman. That way your getting the added benefit of traction of the inner tire in the proper circle instead of dragging the inside tire. At any rate that is an unusual case and more the exception than the rule.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:46 PM   #36198
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 233
Default Camber and tire wear relationshop.

Sorry if his question has been asked before...

I run my 1/12 on asphalt and my front tire cones quite a bit on uneven tire wear. Currently, the outside tire wears more than the inside tire. This only happens on the left tire, the right side is quite even. Could this be because of the track layout and there are more high speed right turns than left turns?

Also, should I add more negative camber OR more positive camber to front tire? This confuses me a little. Currently, I have set both L & R to be -1 degree.

Thanks for any help.
hardmankam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:56 PM   #36199
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,362
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardmankam View Post
Sorry if his question has been asked before...

I run my 1/12 on asphalt and my front tire cones quite a bit on uneven tire wear. Currently, the outside tire wears more than the inside tire. This only happens on the left tire, the right side is quite even. Could this be because of the track layout and there are more high speed right turns than left turns?

Also, should I add more negative camber OR more positive camber to front tire? This confuses me a little. Currently, I have set both L & R to be -1 degree.

Thanks for any help.
Generally a little more coning on the left is normal on an abrasive surface but sounds like you have too much camber on that tire.
__________________
______________________________________________
Jason Deadman

I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
jdeadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:37 PM   #36200
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Given that 1/12th in general uses a very small amount of it's possible travel then it would be better to run angled to get the increased ackerman and increase the steering throw to equal the amount of the outside wheel under load without the ackerman. That way your getting the added benefit of traction of the inner tire in the proper circle instead of dragging the inside tire. At any rate that is an unusual case and more the exception than the rule.
Ackerman with a flat mounted servo, is totally adjustable through the amount of "sweep" you run in your steering links. When I run my servo flat, I mount it slightly forward and run the ball links on the front of the servo saver. This makes the steering links sweep back from the saver to the steering blocks. This induces the ackerman effect. If you run the links parallel, you do lose quite a bit of ackerman.

This trick was extremely important during the heyday of the "Old Skool" front end. A few shims behind the ballstuds on the servo saver could make a big difference in the way a car handled.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:48 PM   #36201
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardmankam View Post
Sorry if his question has been asked before...

I run my 1/12 on asphalt and my front tire cones quite a bit on uneven tire wear. Currently, the outside tire wears more than the inside tire. This only happens on the left tire, the right side is quite even. Could this be because of the track layout and there are more high speed right turns than left turns?

Also, should I add more negative camber OR more positive camber to front tire? This confuses me a little. Currently, I have set both L & R to be -1 degree.

Thanks for any help.
For JV as most corner are high speed there are quite a bit of load on the outside tire. First make sure there are not a lot of free play at the front end and the wheel bearings are in good shape. Just add more camber so it will wear flat. Oh, and if you chassis was setup really push the front tire will wear really fast and cone it too.....
__________________
http://www.gpm-parts.com
gpm-parts.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 01:38 AM   #36202
Tech Master
 
wingman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tewkesbury, UK via Plymouth, UK.
Posts: 1,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardmankam View Post
Sorry if his question has been asked before...

I run my 1/12 on asphalt and my front tire cones quite a bit on uneven tire wear. Currently, the outside tire wears more than the inside tire. This only happens on the left tire, the right side is quite even. Could this be because of the track layout and there are more high speed right turns than left turns?

Also, should I add more negative camber OR more positive camber to front tire? This confuses me a little. Currently, I have set both L & R to be -1 degree.

Thanks for any help.
Hi mate, I usually adjust the length of the link so that the tyres wear flat. It usually takes a couple of rounds for the grip level to come up to make the adjustment. Also, changing to a softer, or harder spring usually means a change to the camber setting also as the movement of the suspension changes due to the differant spring. It may be that each side is slightly differant due to the differant loads placed on the left or right front tyre.
__________________
Sponsored by CML Distribution - http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk
wingman2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 09:26 AM   #36203
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,376
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardmankam View Post
Sorry if his question has been asked before...

I run my 1/12 on asphalt and my front tire cones quite a bit on uneven tire wear. Currently, the outside tire wears more than the inside tire. This only happens on the left tire, the right side is quite even. Could this be because of the track layout and there are more high speed right turns than left turns?

Also, should I add more negative camber OR more positive camber to front tire? This confuses me a little. Currently, I have set both L & R to be -1 degree.

Thanks for any help.
Just as a quick tip, I swap my front tires sides every race because my track also causes one side to wear more than the other. Rears are less critical, and also annoying because they require 3 screws and some time to get them to roll exactly true on the hub (at least for me).
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
If everything is under control... go faster.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
It is obvious and intuitive to the most casual of observers that RC racing is better than golf.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 09:55 AM   #36204
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern & Central Illinois
Posts: 4,337
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I do the same and rotate the fronts every other run since the left tire wears out faster at my local track. (More high speed right turns than left turns). The other reason is to remove the carpet fuzz from the axles.

Last edited by AreCee; 08-25-2011 at 10:43 AM.
AreCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 11:20 AM   #36205
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 233
Default

Thanks to all who reply my question.

I will rotate the front L & R tires after each run and will change the camber on the left side to see the effect.

BTW: gpm-parts.com ... how do you know I play at JV?
hardmankam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 06:33 AM   #36206
Tech Adept
 
Mitch-e4fs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 132
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

I just built my first 1/12, but i dont know what diameter to true the tires to?
Whats a good starting diameter?
Mitch-e4fs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 11:08 AM   #36207
Tech Master
 
CanyonCarverR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,340
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default Front end setup

I'm going through my front end and have a question for you more experienced 1/12 shoes. When I mount the lower arms on my CRC, there is about 1/4mm difference from left to right in the measurement from the bottom of the arm to my setup board. Is that close enough?
It seems the difference is in the thickness of the chassis but I didn't have my calipers with me. I'll measure it next time I work on it.
CanyonCarverR1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 10:27 AM   #36208
Tech Master
 
TVMRocket69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lancaster Pa.
Posts: 1,904
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to TVMRocket69 Send a message via Yahoo to TVMRocket69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch-e4fs View Post
I just built my first 1/12, but i dont know what diameter to true the tires to?
Whats a good starting diameter?
42mm front. 44mm rear is a good start for carpet racing. Ride height 3.5mm front, 3.5-4mm rear.
__________________
Bob Walker Jr.-Sponsor's-
AnswerUSA-RC Team Driver, G's R/C Raceway Team Driver, RBMods Team Driver, Kosmic R/C Fuel Team Driver, MurfDogg Motorworks Team Driver, Serpent S811B, Serpent S811t, MurfDogg Powered V-Desizn Carpet Ripper 5
TVMRocket69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 12:29 PM   #36209
Tech Elite
 
chris moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phx AZ
Posts: 3,658
Trader Rating: 85 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonCarverR1 View Post
I'm going through my front end and have a question for you more experienced 1/12 shoes. When I mount the lower arms on my CRC, there is about 1/4mm difference from left to right in the measurement from the bottom of the arm to my setup board. Is that close enough?
It seems the difference is in the thickness of the chassis but I didn't have my calipers with me. I'll measure it next time I work on it.
Check that your chassis is flat because if its warped you may need to replace it. Also check your measurements on another flat surface just to be sure that your setup board is flat also. If both check out and you are still off then you can shim one side to compensate for the difference. In reality its a small enough difference that you may not feel it.
__________________
Sponsered by:

CMDezigns Paint Works
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CM-Dezigns/259989190822177?ref=hl
chris moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 12:31 PM   #36210
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,630
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

I'm not quite as picky as some people so .25mm wouldn't bother me too much. .5mm is when I start freaking out and checking everything
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:05 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0