R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-18-2010, 11:49 PM   #34531
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,122
Trader Rating: 238 (100%+)
Default

Wow.

Michael, you are NEVER to say a word about one of my posts again.

You either Doug.

__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 01:20 AM   #34532
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 708
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Wingracer, that was a great post. Very informative, thanks!
adam lancia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:26 AM   #34533
V12
Tech Elite
 
V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,640
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Let the battery thing (1S, 2S, 4cell) aside just from the point of handling, what do you think is the better car t-bar car or link-car and why?
V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 05:48 AM   #34534
Tech Initiate
 
kjoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Venlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 23
Send a message via ICQ to kjoer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Nope. Let me see if I can explain it. There are two reasons for the effect.

When you add vertical load to a tire, it gains traction. But if you put them both on a graph, you will see that the traction goes up less than the load is going up. For example, take a tire with a 1 pound vertical load on it let's say it can take 1 pound of lateral load before it slides. Now double the vertical load to 2 pounds. Does it now take 2 pounds of lateral load to make it slide? No, it will slide at a lesser load, let's say 1.8 pounds.

Secondly, if you move static weight forward in the car, you are putting more vertical load on the front tires but you are also moving the center of gravity forward. Obviously I am talking about the fore/aft position of the cg, not the height. The cg is the point on the car where centrifugal force pushes on to try an push the car towards the outside of the corner. Let's see an example of how this might affect things.

Imagine a 1 pound car. It has the exact same tires all the way around and its weight distribution is exactly even, 1/4 pound of weight on each tire. Its fore/aft cg position will be right in the middle of the car between the tires. Now let's say skid pad tests show this car take a 1 pound lateral load before skidding, meaning it can corner at 1g and its perfectly balanced handling wise so when it skids, it's a four wheel drift out of the circle, not a spin out or an understeer out of the circle. If you doubled the car's weight to 2 pounds, the tires will gain more traction but not as much as the weight will increase the lateral load so the car will now skid with a 1.8 pound lateral load which is LESS than 1g with a two pound car.

Now let's go back to the one pound car but let's move some component forward so that the front tires now have more weight on them. This would initially seem to increase front traction so now this car will spin out when it skids instead of a nice, balanced, 4 wheel drift right? No, that's wrong. Remember, traction goes up more slowly than the vertical load does. So what happens is that the now more lightly loaded rear tires have lost less traction than the fronts have gained. But this alone is only part of the story since we are still seeing a loss of rear traction and a gain in front, even if it isn't an even trade.

That's where fore/aft cg location comes in. Imagine the original, balanced car is stationary on the skid pad and you are in the middle of the skid pad with a pool cue to use to try and push the car from the side out of the circle. The end of the pool cue is placed right on the cg (middle of the car) and the tires and load are the same so when you push on the cue, the car just slides all four tires. Now move the weight forward. The cg moves forward so you have to move the spot on the car that you push with the cue forward. This means you are now pushing harder on the front tires than on the rear. This would be balanced out by the increase in front traction and the decrease in rear traction resulting in another perfect, four wheel slide except that as I said before, the rears have lost less traction than the fronts gained. So the front tires are going to slide first. The car will now understeer.

I hope that makes sense. I am not the best at clearly explaining complex concepts of vehicle dynamics but I have studied it extensively and this is the basic consensus of ALL well informed engineers on the subject. This is why nose heavy front engined cars fight understeer issues while tail heavy rear engined cars like 911s fight with oversteer.

Also, this subject can get even more confusing due to another effect. As I described above, moving the weight to the rear should make the car oversteer but there is a situation where this could be backward. Moving the weight back will make the car looser in a steady state corner but with a rear wheel drive car, the increase in rear weight could reduce wheel spin under power, improving rear traction. This is why offroad dirt cars have such a high rear weight distribution. So in this situation, moving the weight to the rear could result in more steering off power but less on power. Especially when powering off of a slow corner, but might have even MORE on power steering exiting a fast corner.
hmm, slightly off topic, I can actually relate to this to some extent, driving 2WD off road cars in the mid 90's for a certain brand.

During this period they would have a car design with the 6 cell NiCd on the center line of the car, but pretty far to the back. Also the motor (behind the rear axle), pretty far to the front. So basically all its mass was focussed at one point, while the position of its CG would be similar to other cars. The car would have fair amounts of steering both off and on throttle, but generally worse than average traction out of corners. As in, when it started to slide, it was an utter mess. (Talking low grip hard packed clay tracks, not astroturf or grass.)

There used to be other 2WD cars around with the 6 cell NiCd way to the front, the motor way to the back. About the same CG, but the mass spread out way more, causing in way more predictable slides when on the edge of grip.

( Of course nowadays 2WD is going yet another direction with the motor in front of the axle, using a different principle. )
__________________
Team Associated 12R5.1 / PROTOform AMR-12 / MobGums / LRP Vector X12 / LRP SXX Version 2 / LRP LiPo 5400 50C / KO Propo EX-10 Eurus / KO Propo PDS-951ICS / MYLAPS RC4 / Graupner Ultra Duo Plus 50
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rzavelli/stuff/rc_cars/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kjoer?feature=mhee

Last edited by kjoer; 09-19-2010 at 06:47 AM.
kjoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 09:21 AM   #34535
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,636
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

kjoer, I think I know exactly which car you are talking about. I had the exact same experience with it. Great car but you really had to know what you were doing to get it right.

What you are describing brings another concept into the talk besides static weight distribution. What you are seeing is moment of inertia.

A car that has it's mass closer to the cg has a low moment of inertia. It takes less force to rotate the car around its center (just like lighter and/or smaller diameter drivetrain components take less power to accelerate). Usually, this is what we want and is why (I believe) that the change from t-bar cars with saddle packs to link cars with more central, inline packs resulted in a car that could transition more quickly.

Of course, in limited circumstances, spreading the weight out more could result in a slower to respond car that is actually easier to drive. This is rare though and here is why. Yes, the car will be a bit slower to respond and therefore easier to keep it from breaking loose but the moment it does, it will also be slower to recover. So when it does get loose, it will continue to spin around no matter what you do to try and correct it.

Sorry for the long posts guys but I just can't think of any short, simple way to describe these things and they are very important to understand.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 09:37 AM   #34536
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,636
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V12 View Post
Let the battery thing (1S, 2S, 4cell) aside just from the point of handling, what do you think is the better car t-bar car or link-car and why?
First, see my post above where I touch on the subject.

In my opinion, T bar is actually an excellent suspension system for a pan car and yields excellent handling characteristics, especially in sweeping corners. The problem with it is battery location. It forces the batteries (the densest mass in the car) to be placed more outside of the cg location. This results in a higher moment of inertia. A link car with its central location has a lower moment of inertia.

What does this mean on the track? Here are my observations from when I switched from my AMAZING 12L4 to a CRC Gen X:

The 12L4 was always amazing in sweepers. It was very stable on entry to such corners, allowing me to really keep a tight line without having to worry about smacking the inside wall and destroying the car. Its one trouble spot was this one really fast but tight chicane. It would be fine on the quick flip to the right to enter the chicane but the immediate yank of the wheel to the left was sluggish, causing my to miss the apex and forcing me to lift just a bit for the right hand exit. Most of my link car competitors seemed to be taking it flat, tight and were gaining a tenth on me there.

When I took the Gen X there for the first time, it was about the same everywhere on the track except for that chicane. Now I was taking it flat and tight too and my best lap times were a tenth quicker because of it. It was just much quicker to transition.

The only problem was that it was a bit more aggressive entering that sweeper which was making my lap times more inconsistent. It took me a couple of weeks of experimentation to fine tune the set-up and become accustomed to driving it to get the consistency back.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 09:47 AM   #34537
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,122
Trader Rating: 238 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Sorry for the long posts guys but I just can't think of any short, simple way to describe these things and they are very important to understand.
fwiw I think you did a great job describing the forces and effects. The pool cue example was very easy to visualize--and I tend to be visualization-impaired.

Many thanks. I was only poking fun at Michael and Doug for poking fun at my complete, if lengthy, roll-out tutorial a couple years ago.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 09:54 AM   #34538
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,636
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
fwiw I think you did a great job describing the forces and effects. The pool cue example was very easy to visualize--and I tend to be visualization-impaired.

Many thanks. I was only poking fun at Michael and Doug for poking fun at my complete, if lengthy, roll-out tutorial a couple years ago.
Thanks, I'm glad you thought so. I too am very visual and I am usually terrible at trying to describe things like this in text. I need to be able to draw graphs and diagrams to get it to make sense. For instance, the tire graph I mentioned of vertical load vs. coefficient of friction. The first time I saw that graph, it made complete sense to me while before it was a complete mystery

I tried to convince a couple guys of how an upper arm change would raise the roll center once and they both insisted that it would lower it. I tried and tried to convince them but they just wouldn't listen. Finally I broke out a piece of paper and diagrammed the whole thing. Two minutes of drawing taught them more than the previous hour of arguing
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 10:00 AM   #34539
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 403
Default

Hi

What the standard dimentions on a 1/12 scale damper?

i need center-center length on the joints.
diameter/s on a the housing.

Im making CAD drawings of a chassie.
MatsNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 10:02 AM   #34540
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,636
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
Hi

What the standard dimentions on a 1/12 scale damper?

i need center-center length on the joints.
diameter/s on a the housing.

Im making CAD drawings of a chassie.
They vary but are you talking about side damper tubes or the center, what we stupid americans would call "shock"?
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 10:34 AM   #34541
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
They vary but are you talking about side damper tubes or the center, what we stupid americans would call "shock"?

center damper yes.

sorry i did not explain, im going to draw it only with normal dampers. two standard center shocks will do the trick.
MatsNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 11:38 AM   #34542
Tech Elite
 
spring71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 3,697
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Due to the Halloween, the schedule has been changed.

TQ Pan Car Grand Prix will be held in October 17th Sunday.

Hope it works for everyone
__________________
TQ RC RACING
Indoor RC Race Track & Hobby Shop in Chino, CA
Online Shop
http://www.tqrcracing.com
tq@tqrcracing.com
spring71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 11:49 AM   #34543
Tech Initiate
 
kjoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Venlo, The Netherlands
Posts: 23
Send a message via ICQ to kjoer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Sorry for the long posts guys but I just can't think of any short, simple way to describe these things and they are very important to understand.
Yeah I like the completely theoretical approach to car physics. Most of us RC guys handle by common knowledge, from trial and error and what others say. There's all kinds of books on (theoretical) car physics, always wanted to read some, never came around to do it. Understanding stuff from the ground up is always good.
__________________
Team Associated 12R5.1 / PROTOform AMR-12 / MobGums / LRP Vector X12 / LRP SXX Version 2 / LRP LiPo 5400 50C / KO Propo EX-10 Eurus / KO Propo PDS-951ICS / MYLAPS RC4 / Graupner Ultra Duo Plus 50
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rzavelli/stuff/rc_cars/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kjoer?feature=mhee
kjoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 01:47 PM   #34544
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,122
Trader Rating: 238 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
For instance, the tire graph I mentioned of vertical load vs. coefficient of friction. The first time I saw that graph, it made complete sense to me while before it was a complete mystery
Try to find a graph of the friction circle, how much force a tire can "hold" counting both cornering forces and driving forces on the tire.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 01:54 PM   #34545
Tech Elite
 
odpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Wow.

Michael, you are NEVER to say a word about one of my posts again.

You either Doug.

Hey! my post was only a sentence

And we may tease you about the roll out post, but it is still the definitive statement on the subject, and the one I refer people to when asked about roll out
__________________
TOP Racing USA--OD Racing--Novak--Power Push--J Spec
odpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:34 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0