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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 08-10-2010, 09:49 PM   #34216
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May I allow a couple of facts to get in the way of all these stories about receiver packs and what they power? Thank you...

As for the speedo re-charging the receiver pack, that is going to be a little on the difficult side. The speedo is a three-phase controller with BL, not a single phase controller. Unless it had a converter in it, there isn't any way a three phase supply can charge a battery. Since the converter would occupy as much space as the current three phase controller, speedos would be a lot bigger. Since they aren't...
+1!
and if we add a little bit a logic, if the speedo could indeed recharge the battery, then we would have an adequete voltage/current supply for the receiver. we wouldn't need the battery in the first place!
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:36 AM   #34217
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My whole family use the netbook I use to program my RS, I can't really see them wanting to use a BD.....

Each to their own, Tekin people like their Tekins, AE people like their Black Diamonds, and that's the way it should be. What shouldn't be done is saying things about either of them that are just plain not true.

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Old 08-11-2010, 03:22 AM   #34218
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+1!
and if we add a little bit a logic, if the speedo could indeed recharge the battery, then we would have an adequete voltage/current supply for the receiver. we wouldn't need the battery in the first place!
That might make sense to an electrician but just because something is right doesnt mean it should override an existing rule.
To me its like saying a tamiya mini often handles better with more weight. Therefore an underweight mini should be allowed.

Or saying 75MHz which is illegal in australia (i think due to the use of the band for emergency channels or something) still works fine. So therefore people should be allowed to use it at a race meet, because in reality it works fine if we just ignore other rules who cares.



I dont know enough about speedies to comment about what could or couldnt be done by plugging a receiver pack directly into it. Whats to say there arent capacitors on the speedie which are somehow being topped up by the receiver pack, or the receiver pack is not being use to smooth out the main cell power as opposed to actually running the motor. I really dont know **SHRUG**

So like i said having power plugged directly into a speedie there is no way for you to know what the esc is doing with out asking someone to open their speedie and having an engineer look at it and determine if the power goes directly to the receiver.

Does the BD switch off the receiver pack when the esc is off? If so to me its possible there is some kind of electrical switching circuit, not sure how that would work. I doubt it has a big switch with room for two sets of wires going into it. Again though that is something i couldnt tell you and how is it going to be possible for scruitineer to know what happens to the power when all you can see is it going into the speedie.


Anyway there is one way to resolve this issue, and that is to have ROAR or whatever regulatory body (in my case AARCMCC) change the wording of the rule. But like i said, for that to happen to me theoretically speaking they would then need to start a list of legal speed controllers which have slots for the direct input of receiver packs (or i guess you would now rename it to an esc pack). And i doubt people will want to have to maintain a new list, or if the regulatory bodies have the technical expertise to be able to reverse engineer escs easily.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:41 AM   #34219
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The BD has been run under and won events under pretty much every major governing body even with the huge amount of complaints it had when it first showed up. It has not been deemed illegal yet so feel free to throw $50 my way next event when it dominates. I will feel great about it.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:39 AM   #34220
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It can be brought here in oz for about $350AU. Thats a bit cheap than the states.
Not really considering todays almost as strong as the US$ Aussie dollar.

Can't believe this has gone on another 2 or 3 pages. The Tekin droids are out there and there is just no stopping them. Yes the BD is not the cheapest ESC out there, but, quite simply anyone who has held one of these little beauties in there hands and has had the pleasure of driving one would never for a split second questions the value for money you get with it. It is of quality that is on another planet. Anyone who says otherwise just hasn't used one!

I agree with Mr Tyson, the world is all about choices. We shouldn't beat each other up about what ESC we choose. As the saying goes, "when the flag drops the BU!1$h!T stops".
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:45 PM   #34221
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That might make sense to an electrician but just because something is right doesnt mean it should override an existing rule.
To me its like saying a tamiya mini often handles better with more weight. Therefore an underweight mini should be allowed.

Or saying 75MHz which is illegal in australia (i think due to the use of the band for emergency channels or something) still works fine. So therefore people should be allowed to use it at a race meet, because in reality it works fine if we just ignore other rules who cares.



I dont know enough about speedies to comment about what could or couldnt be done by plugging a receiver pack directly into it. Whats to say there arent capacitors on the speedie which are somehow being topped up by the receiver pack, or the receiver pack is not being use to smooth out the main cell power as opposed to actually running the motor. I really dont know **SHRUG**

So like i said having power plugged directly into a speedie there is no way for you to know what the esc is doing with out asking someone to open their speedie and having an engineer look at it and determine if the power goes directly to the receiver.

Does the BD switch off the receiver pack when the esc is off? If so to me its possible there is some kind of electrical switching circuit, not sure how that would work. I doubt it has a big switch with room for two sets of wires going into it. Again though that is something i couldnt tell you and how is it going to be possible for scruitineer to know what happens to the power when all you can see is it going into the speedie.


Anyway there is one way to resolve this issue, and that is to have ROAR or whatever regulatory body (in my case AARCMCC) change the wording of the rule. But like i said, for that to happen to me theoretically speaking they would then need to start a list of legal speed controllers which have slots for the direct input of receiver packs (or i guess you would now rename it to an esc pack). And i doubt people will want to have to maintain a new list, or if the regulatory bodies have the technical expertise to be able to reverse engineer escs easily.
This ridiculous speculation really has to stop, as it makes no sense in any form of engineering - electrical, electronic or mechanical!!

Let's see if this kills it off...

When a receiver pack is plugged into the receiver, the positive and negative are directly connected to the positive and negative of the speedo by the rails under the receiver pins. What's the difference between that direct connection and the one you are all speculating over in the BD? That'd be... none!

BD have very cleverly provided you with a socket to plug in a power supply for the car electronics that can use the regulator already built into the speedo. It is doing nothing more or less than plugging that same pack into the receiver, and saving you the cost and complexity of a regulator for the Rx pack. Period. End of...
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:32 PM   #34222
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
This ridiculous speculation really has to stop, as it makes no sense in any form of engineering - electrical, electronic or mechanical!!

Let's see if this kills it off...

When a receiver pack is plugged into the receiver, the positive and negative are directly connected to the positive and negative of the speedo by the rails under the receiver pins. What's the difference between that direct connection and the one you are all speculating over in the BD? That'd be... none!

BD have very cleverly provided you with a socket to plug in a power supply for the car electronics that can use the regulator already built into the speedo. It is doing nothing more or less than plugging that same pack into the receiver, and saving you the cost and complexity of a regulator for the Rx pack. Period. End of...
Sorry Peter, that won't kill it off. Some people are just plain too bloody minded to see sense! You and I are both dedicated Tekin users but know that what you have said about the BD is absolutely the truth. Convincing some though.......

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Old 08-11-2010, 05:45 PM   #34223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
This ridiculous speculation really has to stop, as it makes no sense in any form of engineering - electrical, electronic or mechanical!!

Let's see if this kills it off...

When a receiver pack is plugged into the receiver, the positive and negative are directly connected to the positive and negative of the speedo by the rails under the receiver pins. What's the difference between that direct connection and the one you are all speculating over in the BD? That'd be... none!

BD have very cleverly provided you with a socket to plug in a power supply for the car electronics that can use the regulator already built into the speedo. It is doing nothing more or less than plugging that same pack into the receiver, and saving you the cost and complexity of a regulator for the Rx pack. Period. End of...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCoult View Post
Sorry Peter, that won't kill it off. Some people are just plain too bloody minded to see sense! You and I are both dedicated Tekin users but know that what you have said about the BD is absolutely the truth. Convincing some though.......

Trev
It makes sense to me, just another plug and play point against the BD thinking outside the box..

Is this row coming into it's second year ?

The whole reason the dynamic timing advances came about thinking outside of the box, there has not been any rules to say this timing cannot take place and now we are fighting to turn it off.

Funny old world.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:53 PM   #34224
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Me_MrTyson, the BIG debate about the BD has nothing to do with timing, it's the myth that it uses Rx pack power to the motor. Complete BS of course but some people just will NOT be convinced.

My reasons for not having one have nothing to do with either.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:20 PM   #34225
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Last edited by Josh Keller; 08-13-2010 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:26 PM   #34226
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Me_MrTyson, the BIG debate about the BD has nothing to do with timing, it's the myth that it uses Rx pack power to the motor. Complete BS of course but some people just will NOT be convinced.
After 2 years you would be thinking this row would have gone.. Tekin is as fast now so there should be no reason to blame a simple cable for the speed BD had from it original showing.

Which deep down is really what this row is about, one speed controller which worked out how to create Dynamtic timing made it faster than the Kid on the block so they must have been cheating using the life battery as extra power or something.

Sure I will get shot for that comment hate PM's or something


Quote:
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My reasons for not having one have nothing to do with either.

What are the reason's??
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:15 PM   #34227
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Was this the 1/12 thread or a esc debate thread get back to topic....
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:57 PM   #34228
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Was this the 1/12 thread or a esc debate thread get back to topic....

good plan

I have a r12 arriving next week, have purchased a BLS651 for the special event..

Does anyone know if it will fit?
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:04 PM   #34229
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good plan

I have a r12 arriving next week, have purchased a BLS651 for the special event..

Does anyone know if it will fit?
Come see me if it doesn't fit, I will find a way.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:13 PM   #34230
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Come see me if it doesn't fit, I will find a way.

Good man cheers Paul...

really hoping to test it next Friday night, still got that test BD unit?
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