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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 05-18-2010, 02:06 PM   #33916
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
No it doesn't. The mono shock does all the spring and dampening. The roll bar is needed in this design or the car will just flop around left to right.
So you're saying that there are no longer any springs on the king pins? Also unless you're running outdoors on a very bumpy track, there really isn't that much suspension travel in the front end to justify all the dampening in that large mono shock.

I also don't see how the front end would "flop around" because it looks like a standard AE reactive caster front end with a big mono shock and torsion bar. The AE car doesn't have those and it doesn't "flop".
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:22 PM   #33917
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Why does it 'flop' around? I'll do my best...

With a monoshock, the spring only compresses and extends when both wheels are moving up and down together. In roll, as one wheel goes down, and the other goes up, the spring doesn't move so there is nothing to resist the roll.

The anti-roll, or torsion bar will hold one wheel in position, so as the car rolls, the other wheel will try to compress the spring. Without the torsion bar, to control the roll, you get the 'flop'.

I am not sure why Yokomo have used this design. It was pioneered by Associated in the 12iS in 1984 (and included centre-point steering) and if it had been such a good idea, we'd still be using it! Weight, and it being too slow to react to the very fast direction changes we get in 12th did for it, and by 1987 we had the 12L, with a single spring in each wishbone, above the axle block.

Some people will use it, and like it. Equally, I think that one of the established suspension systems (AE, CRC or Speedmerchant) will win the Worlds! HTH
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:40 PM   #33918
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
So you're saying that there are no longer any springs on the king pins? Also unless you're running outdoors on a very bumpy track, there really isn't that much suspension travel in the front end to justify all the dampening in that large mono shock.

I also don't see how the front end would "flop around" because it looks like a standard AE reactive caster front end with a big mono shock and torsion bar. The AE car doesn't have those and it doesn't "flop".
Well the amount of dampening would depend on what wight oil is used. The point to using a shock is the dampening would be more consistent than using grease or thick oil on the king pin. The shock isn't that large...it is the same size as the shock in the rear which is among the smallest you can make an oil filled shock that still works well.

The front end is not a standard AE reactive caster front end. It looks like it because the upper arm is the same...however the lower arms also move with the suspension instead of being static like other dynamic strut front ends. The reason it would flop around is because the shock does not attach to the chassis at all...it attaches to both of the lower arms so without the roll bar when the car rolls it would just pivot around the lower pivot points on the lower arm.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:45 PM   #33919
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
I am not sure why Yokomo have used this design. It was pioneered by Associated in the 12iS in 1984 (and included centre-point steering) and if it had been such a good idea, we'd still be using it! Weight, and it being too slow to react to the very fast direction changes we get in 12th did for it, and by 1987 we had the 12L, with a single spring in each wishbone, above the axle block.
With the amount of power we have today and the lightness of the LiPo batteries weight is not as much of a factor as it was back in 1984. In today's RC the advantage gained by having an independent front end may now exceed the disadvantages of it's weight. As the industry changes old things that were a good idea but it's limitations out weight the benefit can be tried again and work better.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:06 PM   #33920
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Default Weight distribution

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
With the amount of power we have today and the lightness of the LiPo batteries weight is not as much of a factor as it was back in 1984. In today's RC the advantage gained by having an independent front end may now exceed the disadvantages of it's weight. As the industry changes old things that were a good idea but it's limitations out weight the benefit can be tried again and work better.
Inspgadgt,

Agree with what your saying, but the problem now is the weight distribution. I feel that the cars are now to nose heavy and weight distribution is not correct.
4 cell nimh was just right, you could get the chassis to move as needed but now with LIPO most of the weight is in the servo, ESC and receiver which is more up front of the car.
In Australia we only run out doors Asphalt and therefore require as much rear grip as possible.
Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:39 PM   #33921
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Gadget, not sure how you come to either of your conclusions. Using oil-filled shocks in both the rear (side to side) and the front creates a considerable inertia in order to get them moving, and has issues with the 'pack' effect at higher oil weights.

Using silicone oil in simple piston/cylinders overcomes these issues completely. The system is light and very responsive (be it rear damper tubes or front kingpins running in the lower wishbone bush) and easier to adjust. There is almost no inertia compared to shocks, and no 'pack' effect.

The issue with the 12iS front end is where the weight is as Damit says. The additional concern is that the unsprung weight has now gone up considerably, which makes it even more difficult to get the suspension performance we need. Overall, if this was such a good idea, then we would all have been using the 12iS front end since 1984!

Whilst I appreciate your points, I hope you were not suggesting that they mean this is a better design than what we already have. If so, I disagree!!
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:03 AM   #33922
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Slowerone, using oil on the kingpin varies viscosity as it gets dirty which can be an issue for running outdoors and varies as the oil gets pushed off of the kingpin by friction. A shock might suffer much less of these problems, pack may not be an issue either as it is possible a heavy oil may not be needed given the volume of the shock compared to an oiled hinge pin. Also I never said it would be better...only that it COULD be. I am only pointing out that old ideas often come back into play as technology changes, that what did not work in the past due to limitations may later work in the future.

That said I do like the simplicity of the damper tube better...I just don't feel the oiled kingpin is as effective as a damper tube. I've been considering ways to use a damper tube on the front effectively and using a coil over damper tube as a rear shock as well...but haven't come up with anything I like just yet.

Damit, I'm with you on the cars being too nose heavy...however lately manufacturers have been saying that they have been finding that grip is actually increasing as the weight has moved forward. Personally I'm not so sure on that but some of the setups I have seen recently have gone back to the same rear spring they used to run with 4 cell instead of the lighter spring people were initially running when we first went to LiPo.

This front end is much more in line with the Delta front end then it is with the 12is front end.

I"m not suggesting that this is a better design than our existing ones...only that it might be. Yokomo has much better engineers than I do looking at these issues...I am sure if they did not feel they could gain an advantage with it they would not have put it on a production car.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:42 AM   #33923
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Hi all 12 racers,

First TQ Carpet Championship Series will start on June 13 !!



Winners of each classes will get Trophies and Race Awards.

Raffle prizes for the racers with 300 points and more on Final (Round 7).

Click here for the classes and the rules.

Road Course Race: Every 2nd and 4th Sunday ( 2nd and 4th Saturdays will be all day practice).

Oval Race: June 20, July 18, August 29, September 26.
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #33924
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Does anyone know if there is an aftermarket part to replace the center shock tower on the Gen XL that has a different release for the shock? Popping the shock off everytime to change the battery is wearing out the ball cups and is a hassle. If not is the a better tool than pliers to pop it off without damaging it?
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:06 PM   #33925
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Originally Posted by svines1972 View Post
Does anyone know if there is an aftermarket part to replace the center shock tower on the Gen XL that has a different release for the shock? Popping the shock off everytime to change the battery is wearing out the ball cups and is a hassle. If not is the a better tool than pliers to pop it off without damaging it?
I'm using a hex ball cup and ball from an Xray FK'04. Uses a 3mm wrench to remove. Simple.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:56 PM   #33926
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
I"m not suggesting that this is a better design than our existing ones...only that it might be. Yokomo has much better engineers than I do looking at these issues...I am sure if they did not feel they could gain an advantage with it they would not have put it on a production car.
Where Yokomo is concerned, Gadget, I sometimes wonder if it is for advantage, or just to be different! So many Yokomo cars have been designed for Masami to drive, and since he is semi-retired, they haven't got anywhere near the results of yore.

Understand what you're saying, but I'll not be fiddling with front dampers! Let us know how that goes. Cheers!
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:08 PM   #33927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
Where Yokomo is concerned, Gadget, I sometimes wonder if it is for advantage, or just to be different! So many Yokomo cars have been designed for Masami to drive, and since he is semi-retired, they haven't got anywhere near the results of yore.

Understand what you're saying, but I'll not be fiddling with front dampers! Let us know how that goes. Cheers!
I'm sure Naoto Matsukura will do fine with it.
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:38 PM   #33928
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If anyone is running old school three hole rear hubs and need tires please feel free to PM me. I have two pairs of TRC(GRP) tires that will fit. Brand NIP. Greys and Greens...
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:56 PM   #33929
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pictures yokomo r-12

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/










adjustable lower suspension(skid angle)






new large wheel



bump stop screw

Last edited by landau; 05-20-2010 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:31 PM   #33930
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... Starting X-mas list
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