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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 09-08-2009, 09:22 AM   #32041
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Now you are making me think. In the past I have always used and integy lazer tweak board, there is no question that it gets the cross weights equal, which is what I always assumed that is what we were after. IF the rear pod is not equal weights on the rear tires then setting the front tires to equal weights would be setting the car up with unequal cross weights, which I have assumed for 15 years meant "tweaked".

That leads to the next question: would the ideal 12th scale car have the mass of the motor centered in the rear pod?
To me, the whole key is that the rear tires are absolutely fixed relative to each other so I'm not entirely convinced the whole "cross weights" thing exactly fits in it's entirety. Pseudo cross weights certainly, but changing at the front. In a stock car (or similar) the rear axle fixes the rear camber relative to each other, but it doesn't have the substantial mass of the car (motor/axle/gearing/hubs/pod) fixed on it and moving on a single pivot.

Would the "ideal" 1/12 have the motor mass perfectly centered? I would argue that the ENTIRE mass of the pod assembly would ideally be balanced side-to-side. I need to check into this, but I'd wager that our brushed motors are now more different in mass from different winds within the same manufacturers lineup. If that's the case, the centering and effect on balance would change with each different wind. Then you run into differences between manufacturers and different lines of motors and you're into a whole 'nuther realm of question. In the end, I honestly don't spend any time trying to balance the rear pod. I balance everything on the front chassis plate when I build the car and (effectively) tweak from the front with the rear sitting across the fixed bar.
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:52 AM   #32042
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To me, the whole key is that the rear tires are absolutely fixed relative to each other so I'm not entirely convinced the whole "cross weights" thing exactly fits in it's entirety. Pseudo cross weights certainly, but changing at the front. In a stock car (or similar) the rear axle fixes the rear camber relative to each other, but it doesn't have the substantial mass of the car (motor/axle/gearing/hubs/pod) fixed on it and moving on a single pivot.

Would the "ideal" 1/12 have the motor mass perfectly centered? I would argue that the ENTIRE mass of the pod assembly would ideally be balanced side-to-side. I need to check into this, but I'd wager that our brushed motors are now more different in mass from different winds within the same manufacturers lineup. If that's the case, the centering and effect on balance would change with each different wind. Then you run into differences between manufacturers and different lines of motors and you're into a whole 'nuther realm of question. In the end, I honestly don't spend any time trying to balance the rear pod. I balance everything on the front chassis plate when I build the car and (effectively) tweak from the front with the rear sitting across the fixed bar.
I had to think about this for a while to get my head around it. I think we are talking about fairly small orders of magnitude in rear pod imbalance, so just balancing the front to “equal” works okay.

However, when I think back to the old days when I was running carpet oval with a Delta Villain, we would fine tune the corner speed with cross weights and you could defiantly tell the difference. From my experience cross weights do make a difference and should be the ideal way to set “tweak”.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:11 AM   #32043
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A bit of theory for all of you. Let's start by saying tweak and crossweight are the same thing.

Tire size and tweak. Yes, if the tires wear unevenly this can cause tweak. However, if the front and rear tires are wearing unevenly left to right at the same rate, tweak will not be affected at all. All that changes is stagger and ride height left to right. While this is rarely the case, it still greatly reduces the rate of tweak change.

Effects of tweak. For clarity, please understand that I am talking about SMALL amounts of tweak here, not large amounts. Because we run road courses, we usually want no tweak in the car. Because of this, people seem to think that the slightest amount of tweak means a terrible handling car. This is not always the case. The only thing a SMALL amount of tweak will really do is cause the car to have slightly more steering in one direction, slightly less steering in the other direction. I'm not saying this condition is desirable but it is not always a problem for a skilled driver and not always noticeable for a less skilled driver. While I have never intentionally tweaked a 1/12th I have often put tweak in the car in other classes. I can't tell you how many 1/8th onroad tracks I have run where all the right handers are fast sweepers and all the left handers are hairpins. On occasion (only sometimes) I have found that putting a little tweak in the car has helped me get a better handling car. But like I said, I haven't done it for 1/12th as I have yet to find a track where it would work. If I ever do find one where I need more steering in ALL the lefts and less in ALL the rights or vice versa, I just might do it. If you think I'm nuts, I will point out that Mario Andretti was famous for doing this (and stagger) in Formula 1. It didn't work at every track but it was a big advantage at the tracks it did work on.

Static weight (balance) effects tweak. Take a car that is perfectly balanced and all the corner heights are even, in other words the front axles are at the same height, springs are even, pod is level with the chassis, etc. This car should have no tweak at all. Now put a great big heavy ass chunk of lead on the far left side of the pod right under the axle. Despite the fact that the corner heights haven't changed because the weight is right under the axle and therefore not affecting any of the car's springs, it will still have tweak in it now if you use four scales to check it. There will be more weight on the left rear than the right rear. If you check the tweak from the front either by lifting the front or with a tweak bar at the front, it will still show level but if you check it from the rear, it will show tweak. You would see the same thing only in reverse if you could hang a big weight from the bottom of one front kingpin. This, to me is the main reason for wanting a balanced pod. It makes getting even tweak much easier. That being said, I'm like Scottrik. As long as it's close, I'm happy.

Different motors and pod balance. While I haven't weighed any of them, I imagine different winds would weigh different. This will not affect balance if the cg of the motor is right on the centerline of the rear tires. All that changes is the total weight. If the motor's cg is offset from the centerline, balance and tweak will be affected. Since there are probably slight differences in cg between different brands (and maybe different winds of the same brand) and different cars may have slightly different mounting positions I would suspect that a motor change will affect balance and tweak, but it's probably small enough not to matter too much.
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Old 09-08-2009, 06:36 PM   #32044
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i just got an associated rc12l4 factory team kit nib for $50..it's still competitive right ? what would be a good servo for it ? thanks
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:00 PM   #32045
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i just got an associated rc12l4 factory team kit nib for $50..it's still competitive right ? what would be a good servo for it ? thanks
You will need some lowered rear pods, other then that its just as good as most other things out there.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:02 PM   #32046
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You will need some lowered rear pods, other then that its just as good as most other things out there.
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:19 PM   #32047
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What's old is new...get ready

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Old 09-09-2009, 12:15 AM   #32048
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That's my car haha! What have you heard mate? Oh, and just to let you know, that I have drawn up a new chassis design that uses some of the features from the SP12V, but with a 'twist'. Drawings will get sent off to Fibre Lyte this week. Should be good once all completed!
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:25 AM   #32049
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That's my car haha! What have you heard mate? Oh, and just to let you know, that I have drawn up a new chassis design that uses some of the features from the SP12V, but with a 'twist'. Drawings will get sent off to Fibre Lyte this week. Should be good once all completed!
Isnt the BMI chassis the evolved SP12V already?
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:46 AM   #32050
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Isnt the BMI chassis the evolved SP12V already?
In a way yes. There are certain similarities in concept. Also some big differences.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:54 PM   #32051
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There's loads of diferances between the Corally and BMI cars. The side 'links' do not help to pivot the rear end on the 12V. They are solely used in place of a t-bar, controlling forward to aft movement of the motor pod. The motor pod itself runs on a seperate pivot that provides the left to right movement, independantly of the forward to aft. There are holes down the side of the links that are used to either stiffen or soften the forward to aft movement whilst differant thickness damper syrup controls the left to right. I remember the 12V coming out many years ago, and tried to work out how the rear end worked, believe me, it's much easier to understand once you have one in your hands! Although I don't have a BMI 12th car, I do have the GT10 which sorks the same way. It's a great car that works really well. I'll try to take some pics of the rear end of the 12V and you'll see how it works, very neat!! Cheers, Chris.

PS, I have just looked through the pics on rc50.com from Vegas, and there is a Corally chassis on there which is EXACTLY like the one I am getting made up at the mo, GUTTED!!

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Old 09-09-2009, 02:28 PM   #32052
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PS, I have just looked through the pics on rc50.com from Vegas, and there is a Corally chassis on there which is EXACTLY like the one I am getting made up at the mo, GUTTED!!
Keep watching IIC to see how they do.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:49 PM   #32053
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:55 PM   #32054
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There's loads of diferances between the Corally and BMI cars. The side 'links' do not help to pivot the rear end on the 12V. They are solely used in place of a t-bar, controlling forward to aft movement of the motor pod. The motor pod itself runs on a seperate pivot that provides the left to right movement, independantly of the forward to aft. There are holes down the side of the links that are used to either stiffen or soften the forward to aft movement whilst differant thickness damper syrup controls the left to right. I remember the 12V coming out many years ago, and tried to work out how the rear end worked, believe me, it's much easier to understand once you have one in your hands! Although I don't have a BMI 12th car, I do have the GT10 which sorks the same way. It's a great car that works really well. I'll try to take some pics of the rear end of the 12V and you'll see how it works, very neat!! Cheers, Chris.

PS, I have just looked through the pics on rc50.com from Vegas, and there is a Corally chassis on there which is EXACTLY like the one I am getting made up at the mo, GUTTED!!
I dont doubt the 12V is differnet, but from your explantion above... I dont quite agree. You are saying that the 12V front and back pivot motion is controlled only by the side plates? Wouldnt the center shock and central pivot be handling that? On the BMI the front and back is only handled by the central pivot and the center shock. the side plates handle essentially the lateral alignment of the rear plate and side to side rotation. Which from looking at diagrams of the 12V rear end, look strikingly similar.


Edit: Just realized that the 12V doesnt run a central shock... hmm so yeh I guess I dont know how the 12V works... voodoo maybe?


Just looked through those pics on RC50. I didnt see what I was looking for (the Serpent LiPo chassis), but saw some pics of an old 12V there. Lots of R5's a few BMI's it looks like, and a handful of Corallys. Nothing real amazing except that Slapmaster embedded T Bar. I will be very curious how that car runs. That and the one off car with the link steering and custom rear end.
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:09 PM   #32055
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Hi mate, so much easier if you had a 12V in your hand! Hard to explain. There is no centre shock on the 12V, the damper takes care of that. The side links do not act like the ones on the BMI car. They hold the rear end straight and act like the t-bar would, if there was a t-bar on the car. The links bolt onto the V plate of the rear end and there is a seperate pivot assembly that is bolted to the v plate that the motor pod bolts onto (I hope that makes sense!!). The whole of the motor pod assembly rocks back and forth on the side 'links', they do not in any way let the pod move left and right. There is no need for the centre pivot, like on the BMI car, as the motor pod pivots on its own pivot.





Here is the 'new' Corally chassis that I found on RC50.



I don't know if that is an official Corally chassis, or someone has made one up. As I mentioned before, that is pretty much EXEACTLY the same as the one I was making!

I also noticed the springs on the IRS damper tubes, you would have to use these to set the tweak as the original 12V rear end was free floating, no tweaking needed!
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