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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 05-19-2009, 03:24 PM   #31396
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Well then its a good thing that you can clear this all up.. as you clearly know it all In your example you used one sample your best lap to decide that you would be a full lap up. If you can run your very best lap every lap for 8mins then you are the very best driver in the world, my hats off to you.

As an average driver I'll lose that small advantage that nimh has by tapping a board or getting hung up somewhere; thus the 13.5 1s vs 17.5 nimh is very close for me and I'll bet for most of the vast majority of club racers.

Now that you've made me aware of your expertise I certainly wish you well and expect to see your name at the top of the A-main, move over Lia and Blackstock.
in my example i used best lap because what else can you use. well let see. I ran both classes. my best time with a 17.5 4 cell was 31 8:10 and my best time with 1s 13.5 is 32 8:14. this is me with a 4 cell and me with a 1s lipo. both on the same day. so pretty much the same track conditions. we have 4 racers in 17.5 and 8 in 13.5.

hmmm i don't see how you can say they are close. not even. try it yourself, run both classes the same day. talk to some of the other. I have not heard very many people say they are the same, now that people have started to run 13.5 1s and 17.5 1s

you are right. move over lia, blackstock and dumas. i am coming for you!!!

your example makes no sense either. if you tap a board with 4cell, you will tap a board in 1s. so there is still an advantage. are you saying you drive better with a 1s then a 4cell? or are you saying that with 1s, your extra speed buffers the mishaps that you have on the track?
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:32 PM   #31397
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So 1s sounds pretty close to 4 cell. The loss of weight in the infield is making up for a small loss of speed on the stright?
it is close, but a .1 or .2 sec a lap slower is still slower. but most of our drivers are headed he lipo route. main reason is because that is the way the hobby is going.

don't get me wrong. I don't care either way. i just don't like the in between. 1s does have some advantages. but they are not as big as most will try to sell you on. the biggest advantage that i see is that I do not have to deal with my batts on the weekends that I don't use them. you just can not ignore your 4cells for very long. I have 1 cell in a 4 cell pack go zero volt because i have not run them in 2 months. that is really the biggest advantage to lipo I see.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:35 PM   #31398
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Oh trust me I saw the light with lipo's. Not discharging, equalizing, and long charge times. Lipo are charge, run, charge, run. It is pretty cool. We have a new track opening up and not a lot of known 12th scales around so I am hoping our club goes lipo from the start. If not .1-.2 a lap is pretty close in my book but I am an offroader. We don't usually have ultra close consistant lap times due to bumps and jumps like you onroad guys do! Thinking I might just start out with the 1S 17.5 with the novak booster setup and go have some fun.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #31399
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Thinking I might just start out with the 1S 17.5 with the novak booster setup and go have some fun.
i would if i were you. there is really no reason to continue to buy nimh. roar has already state their lipo rules for 1/12 and scotty posted his for vegas. lipo is really the only cells to buy now. I even heard a rumor that some of the big suppiers of round cell are no longer bringing them in and that the only ones they will have available are for team guys going to races that require them run round cells. if you end up with a racer that clearly has an advantage due to running round cells will soon get tired of beating you. racing is about competition.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:43 PM   #31400
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it's been stated before that 13.5 1s is still faster then 17.5 4cell so I believe as a trade off, the less weight which equals less tire wear and convenince of lipo should be the if you going to run it you should not be able to run 13.5 1s against 17.5 4cell. take your lipo tax and live with it and run motor for motor. heck some guys in GA are running 23t motors and 1s against 17.5 4cell and in 12th scale 27t is faster then 17.5 on most tracks
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:51 PM   #31401
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Oh trust me I saw the light with lipo's. Not discharging, equalizing, and long charge times. Lipo are charge, run, charge, run. It is pretty cool. We have a new track opening up and not a lot of known 12th scales around so I am hoping our club goes lipo from the start. If not .1-.2 a lap is pretty close in my book but I am an offroader. We don't usually have ultra close consistant lap times due to bumps and jumps like you onroad guys do! Thinking I might just start out with the 1S 17.5 with the novak booster setup and go have some fun.
I beg to differ on the equalizing part... I have heard people having a 2s lipo go unbalanced after a couple charges. so you have to balance them still. now 1s I guess you have that there but who knows where it will go in the next couple years maybe someone figures out how to make a 2.4v lipo cell and makes a 2s that is 4.8 volts.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:08 PM   #31402
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
it's been stated before that 13.5 1s is still faster then 17.5 4cell so I believe as a trade off, the less weight which equals less tire wear and convenince of lipo should be the if you going to run it you should not be able to run 13.5 1s against 17.5 4cell. take your lipo tax and live with it and run motor for motor. heck some guys in GA are running 23t motors and 1s against 17.5 4cell and in 12th scale 27t is faster then 17.5 on most tracks
nash, you and I are on the same page. too bad some one is turning the page on us. lol

lipo is the way, like it or not. so we must enbrace this new technology and move forward.

btw, 1s lipo is really not a 1 cell. there is 2 cells in there. And really I do not do that much with my round packs. I do equalize them at the beginning of the day. but I only run 2 packs. I run each 2-3 times a day. and have done so since vegas last year. I did not race the last 2 month because, well basically I did not want to run in the transition time at our track. we now have mostly lipo racers. there were just a handfull of round cells. and the only reason I ran a round cell in 17.5 was, well, I could not find another lipo pack. everyone was out of stock. now that our track is a club, I wanted to show my support even though I did not have all the "right" equipment to race. someone may comeout with a different voltage cell, but it will not be lipo. the chemistry of the lipo will not produce anything but 3.7v
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:13 PM   #31403
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My new SM rev5 lipo edition, waiting on parts.

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Old 05-19-2009, 04:14 PM   #31404
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:47 PM   #31405
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in my example i used best lap because what else can you use. well let see. I ran both classes. my best time with a 17.5 4 cell was 31 8:10 and my best time with 1s 13.5 is 32 8:14. this is me with a 4 cell and me with a 1s lipo. both on the same day. so pretty much the same track conditions. we have 4 racers in 17.5 and 8 in 13.5.

hmmm i don't see how you can say they are close. not even. try it yourself, run both classes the same day. talk to some of the other. I have not heard very many people say they are the same, now that people have started to run 13.5 1s and 17.5 1s

you are right. move over lia, blackstock and dumas. i am coming for you!!!

your example makes no sense either. if you tap a board with 4cell, you will tap a board in 1s. so there is still an advantage. are you saying you drive better with a 1s then a 4cell? or are you saying that with 1s, your extra speed buffers the mishaps that you have on the track?
O'my its sad that your deductive reasoning skills are lacking, numbers can say anything if you put them in the right order. Mabey you had a few extra board taps with the 17.5 or the marshal was a few tenths slower, or any number of other factors. Like I said best lap or best run is just that the best. To get a good sampling you have to avg all the runs and not just one day but over several days/months of runs because there are too many varibles that can influnce the outcome. Even your mental approach can upset the findings as the mind can make a huge difference. You asked am I better with 1s, yes I think so but thats because I like the lighter weight so it could be that I concentrate just a fraction more. So mabey you like the 1s better; I know you said you dont care; or because the 1s is new so your pushing just a fraction harder. Heck even the track changes run to run, you have to have a bigger sample size to be able to make absolute statements.

Lets take another look at your numbers you claim to be .2 faster with 17.5 nimh vs AWD's best lap in 17.5 1s. So using your limited numbers we find that 13.5 1s is .3 faster than 17.5 nimh and 17.5 nimh is .2 faster than 17.5 1s. No matter how you shake it your claim that you must run motor to motor is false, it turns out using your info that 13.5 1s/17.5 nimh is just as close as 17.5 nimh/17.5 1s; again thats using your numbers. Neither way is exactly even but both are close and within the noise. Dang it would appear that you are just as misinformed as I am, who will I look to now for lipo wisedom
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:54 PM   #31406
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Not me, my car's not running yet.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:57 PM   #31407
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Originally Posted by chris moore View Post
O'my its sad that your deductive reasoning skills are lacking, numbers can say anything if you put them in the right order. Mabey you had a few extra board taps with the 17.5 or the marshal was a few tenths slower, or any number of other factors. Like I said best lap or best run is just that the best. To get a good sampling you have to avg all the runs and not just one day but over several days/months of runs because there are too many varibles that can influnce the outcome. Even your mental approach can upset the findings as the mind can make a huge difference. You asked am I better with 1s, yes I think so but thats because I like the lighter weight so it could be that I concentrate just a fraction more. So mabey you like the 1s better; I know you said you dont care; or because the 1s is new so your pushing just a fraction harder. Heck even the track changes run to run, you have to have a bigger sample size to be able to make absolute statements.

Lets take another look at your numbers you claim to be .2 faster with 17.5 nimh vs AWD's best lap in 17.5 1s. So using your limited numbers we find that 13.5 1s is .3 faster than 17.5 nimh and 17.5 nimh is .2 faster than 17.5 1s. No matter how you shake it your claim that you must run motor to motor is false, it turns out using your info that 13.5 1s/17.5 nimh is just as close as 17.5 nimh/17.5 1s; again thats using your numbers. Neither way is exactly even but both are close and within the noise. Dang it would appear that you are just as misinformed as I am, who will I look to now for lipo wisedom
there in lies the problem your math. .3 is not closer to 0 then .2 no matter how you slice and dice it. I guess logic excludes math. hmmmm now I understand
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:13 PM   #31408
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I beg to differ on the equalizing part... I have heard people having a 2s lipo go unbalanced after a couple charges. so you have to balance them still. now 1s I guess you have that there but who knows where it will go in the next couple years maybe someone figures out how to make a 2.4v lipo cell and makes a 2s that is 4.8 volts.
First off a 1s will not go out of balance due to there only being one cell! (ok 2 in series but you can't balance in series as far as I know)

Second my charger balances every time it charges as long as I plug in the balance plug so since I always balance my batteries it never takes very long at all. Way better.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:00 PM   #31409
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hey all,
with the exception of this nimh vs lipo drama, i really appreciate the civil tone and genuinely helpful and respectful interchange of knowledge and opinion on this thread, (and most of the electric threads i have seen)

ps, for the rankled posters of this thread and to the overly dramatic nitro threads (you know who you are), you should go spend some time on the www.helifreak.com. their byline is:

"Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect" (hmm nirvana like)
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:15 PM   #31410
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First off a 1s will not go out of balance due to there only being one cell! (ok 2 in series but you can't balance in series as far as I know)

Second my charger balances every time it charges as long as I plug in the balance plug so since I always balance my batteries it never takes very long at all. Way better.
A 1s pack is really 2 cells in parallel, not in series. If the cells were in series the voltage would be 7.4 not 3.7.
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