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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 04-28-2009, 11:38 AM   #31231
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I'm with timmay70, I don't think a molded chassis is enough to lower the cost.

Why don't you use a chassis protector sheet if you are worried about the asphault scratching it up.

The most expensive parts of the car other than the chassis, are the Aluminum Bulkheads, Axle, and Hubs. Those parts along with the chassis usually cost $200.00 to replace, so lowering the $50.00 main chassis to $25.00 bucks won't do much to help the purchase price, especially when the servo (KO 951 $112), receiver (Spektrum DSM2 Pro Micro $120), 1s SMC LiPo ($55 each x 2 - $110), Receiver battery or booster for 1s LiPo cars ($30), transponder (AMB $100), wire (TQ 16ga $7), motor (your pick $75), speed control (LRP SPX $180), spurs (PRS - extra or different sizes $25), pinions (PRS @ $5 each x 20 = $100), tires (several sets and different compounds $150), bearings (extras @ 1$ each x 20 = $20), and special aluminum bits and shims ($30) cost you an additional $1059.00.

Tell me how saving $25 to $50 on the price of the car is going to stop anyone from getting into 1/12 cars. The above money doesn't even include the cost of the Radio, Tools, Bags or Cases, Tire Truer, Chargers, Power Supplies, etc...

Good idea, but if you take the above into consideration, you can see why there is zero incentive to produce such a special chassis. Besides, other companies, like Trinity and Speedmerchant, have tried producing "Spec" 1/12 chassis and kits with cheaper Fiberglass type materials with no success.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:02 PM   #31232
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And Academy did make a plastic molded chassis 1/12th scale...we all see how well that caught on.

I do however see one potential idea for a molded chassis...and that is a chassis that uses ground effects. But at that scale it is difficult to find room for anything and still have a tunnel. I saw a really cool tunnel car at Thunderdrome many years back but I don't think we could get something like that to work effectively in 1/12th.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:05 PM   #31233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
http://www.aeforums.co.uk/forum/inde...20&#entry16720

I posted this a while back but the idea still remains as a way to introduce cheaper but high quality 1:12 cars to the market.

Can AE make a 12R5 Molded kit? Yes the main chassis would be molded mini- tub to reduce cost and extra parts. It would be made of the same composist like the TC3 FT was made from. Extra parts elminated becuase the things like the shock mounting block or stand offs plus all the scews to affix them would not be used but molded into the chassis.

Then features like bottom-flush AMB transponder mount could be added. Just mold in the spacers and a AMB transponder could be mounted upsided down and flush with the chassis bottom.

Another feature could be ride-height shim locator. It would be a semi-circle ridge to assist in the placement of the shims. It will allow you to remove the screw from the front bulkhead slide in a spacer and reinsert the screw with little worries about the spacer moving before having the screw back in.

Just a thought to bring in some cheap pan cars for basher asphalt racing. Becuase I would rather race with a replacable $30 composite chassis than worry about if I should put a scratch on my carbonfiber chassis. Yes asphalt is fun, but scratches scares me when I have a new car.
The reason that moulded tubs are cheap is that they are used on high-volume cars. 12th isn't high volume, so the cost of the tooling would make a tub chassis dearer. Add to that the fact that ANY variation in the mould that didn't give you a perfectly flat and rigid chassis would cause bad handling. It's a nice idea, but it's not what this market needs. As kn7671 points out, the car is the least expensive bit. You will spend more on tyres and bodies to race for one good season than you will on the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
I do however see one potential idea for a molded chassis...and that is a chassis that uses ground effects. But at that scale it is difficult to find room for anything and still have a tunnel. I saw a really cool tunnel car at Thunderdrome many years back but I don't think we could get something like that to work effectively in 1/12th.
Been there, done that - it was terrible!! We used to have ground-effect skirts on shells, which made the cars understeer everywhere, and then we had tunnels and diffusers, which made the car soooo difficult to drive!

It seemed to me that the gap under the car varied a lot on the track, depending on chassis roll and track undulations. When it was large, the car just let go, and when it was too small, the car was just undriveable. I was told by someone who knows that, once the gap gets below 3mm, the air goes turbulent anyway, and all advantage is lost.

One of our guys does put a diffuser on the back of his WorldGT car - a simple piece of plastic that is flat under the pod, and rises up towards the lower lip of the shell, and that he claims does help rear grip. I reckon it's just a fancy protector for his spur gear!!

Good luck trying!
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:15 PM   #31234
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I guess I might have missed the mark on bringing up the molded chassis.

Some people just get caught up in cost. I know it may take $1200 to be competitve in 1:12. But how in the world is the R/C hobby going to bring in new racers if they can not get a competitve RTR car for about $250.

I get tired of those RTR minis that many people get as thier introduction to competitive R/C. The spend $250 for a car and find out they need $500 more worth of stuff because the parts used in the cheap car are junk and wear, break or have poor fit. So after a few races and putting in a few hundred dollars the new racer quits becuase they started on the wrong path with the wrong car.

What would happen if Losi came out with a molded chassis RTR 1:12? I sure they could make it happen for $250 with DSM, and 3.7V lipo and wall charger. The only thing it won't have is a brushless system for that price. That would allow anyone to get into racing a real class for cheap and not down the money pit road. So they need a $200 brushless system when they stop racing the spec/rookie class. Ok just pop it in and keep racing with the graphite cousins.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:27 PM   #31235
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I think the point that people were trying to make in response to the suggestion has more to do with the cost of developing and producing a mold for a 1/12 car chassis being prohibitive in terms of the need to sell boatloads of cars to recoup the investment involved... Most people entering the racing side of the hobby seem to go for touring cars... A molded touring car makes sense because the maker can expect a high enough sales volume to recoup the cost of the mold during the product's life span in the market, even at a modest price point. With the lower sales volume you'd expect for a 1/12th car, the retail price would likely need to be as high or even higher than a graphite car to pay for the tooling...

On the other hand, a cost effective molded 1/12 car COULD have the potential to sell boatloads of cars... I'm not sure one way or the other, but it would be interesting to see what would happen...
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:28 PM   #31236
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I dont think a tub chassis or RTR 1/12 car is a very real possibility for a couple of reasons. First 1/12 cars require a nice flat and prepped surface to run on and handle well, not the definition of your average driveway or street. Second at this point most 1/12 racers are experienced racers not entry level nubes, racers that expect high quality cars. Basicly new racers gravitate to TC or offroad because thay could bash/run the car at home with friends.

But as Trips said it would be an interesting experiment heck I'd love to see 25+ 1/12 cars at the track; would be like going back to the 80's racing scene.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:29 PM   #31237
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I will be getting my 1st 12th scale this week. It will be a 12r5 and i will be running a 19t on 4cell nimh. what should i start my gearing with?
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:34 PM   #31238
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If there was a strong market for cheaper pan cars you would still see fiberglass kits. For a low volume product, a fiberglass chassis would probably be cheaper than a molded one. But of course, the first thing a noob with a fiberglass car would do is upgrade to graphite despite the fact that spending that money on tires and track time would improve his laptimes more. Hell, I used to kick butt with a fiberglass 10L.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:37 PM   #31239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micrors4guy View Post
I will be getting my 1st 12th scale this week. It will be a 12r5 and i will be running a 19t on 4cell nimh. what should i start my gearing with?
Without getting into actual roll out numbers, probably around a 30/100 would be a good place to start with big tires. If you true the tires down, go up to a 32 or 33.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:38 PM   #31240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Without getting into actual roll out numbers, probably around a 30/100 would be a good place to start with big tires. If you true the tires down, go up to a 32 or 33.
thanks. im really looking forward to giving onroad a try.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:58 AM   #31241
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Streetprice of the Academy car was under 100$ (incl. Body and wheels, excl. ball bearings). But I have never seen one on the track.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:49 AM   #31242
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Default 1/12 body

Check it out!!!! 1/12 Nissan 350z Body
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:57 AM   #31243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanwest94 View Post
Check it out!!!! 1/12 Nissan 350z Body
that looks like a 18R body?
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:46 PM   #31244
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I'd forgotten about the Academy, but there was a VXR 12th RTR car (I think that was the name) which was actually quite good - and sold almost none!

12th is not an entry class, and it hasn't been since about 1980. There have been lots of attempts to make it so (with the fibreglass chassis and resistor speedos back in the day) but they haven't caught on.

It would be interesting to speculate that 12th has survived longer than any other electric class not just because it was there first, but also because it attracts people already into RC in another class, and who are thus more dedicated to RC than a newcomer might be.

Whichever, if a 12th RTR had sold before, it would sure as hell be sold now. It didn't, so it isn't. Just a fact of the 12th market, nothing more, and certainly nothing against the idea.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:48 PM   #31245
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If you want a cheap 1/12th scale, just buy a used one. What other class can you find top of the line competitive cars for 50 dollars?
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