R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-06-2009, 10:12 AM   #31141
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mclean, VA
Posts: 3,940
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default



This is a prototype of the Tamiya F104. Pretty interesting design for a t-bar car. What I don't understand is, why don't we see more 1:12 t-bar designed chassis' like this? Why do all the current 1:12 scale t-bar cars have the t-bar elevated above the main chassis rather than on the same plane as the main chassis like the Tamiya F1's? Just throwing this out there for discussion...
Apex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 10:40 AM   #31142
Tech Regular
 
Conrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 456
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX View Post
I think the major advantage would be that you don't have to maintain the shock as much. Damper tubes require periodic cleaning and refilling to keep them consistent. Also one tube could dry or empty earlier than the other making the car handle differently one way than the other. The shock should just be fill it and forget it, at least for a lot longer than the tubes.
That was my thinking at least, fill and forget for what should be a fairly easy conversion.
Conrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 10:56 AM   #31143
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX View Post
Also one tube could dry or empty earlier than the other making the car handle differently one way than the other.
I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with this part. One damper tube drying out would not affect the car in the way you describe. There's no need for both damper tubes to be identical, in fact the first damper tube cars had only 1 tube.

I don't recall if it's the GenX or Speedmerchant manual that suggests removing one of the tubes and driving the car to check if it's over or under damped, but I've done it often enough to know that there won't be any side to side issues.

Sometimes I'll run 10K in one tube and 1 or 2K in the other... the car feels fine side to side.
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:04 AM   #31144
Tech Apprentice
 
wvince's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tupperville, Ontario, CANADA - like tupperware but with a population of 450.
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post


This is a prototype of the Tamiya F104. Pretty interesting design for a t-bar car. What I don't understand is, why don't we see more 1:12 t-bar designed chassis' like this? Why do all the current 1:12 scale t-bar cars have the t-bar elevated above the main chassis rather than on the same plane as the main chassis like the Tamiya F1's? Just throwing this out there for discussion...
Probably because of the limited room in a 1/12 scale car, the ideal battery location is where it currently sits on the chassis. I haven't seen a 1/12 scale with the battery in front of the T-bar.

If I recall, AE's first 1/12 scale (12e or 12i) was a similar T-bar design as that F104. It was part of the chassis. That chassis layout also had all the electronics mounted up high. There's virtually no way that would work with today's speeds and grip. Traction roll would be imminent.
__________________
www.gsrhobbies.com
hudy
Novak
CRC
wvince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:36 AM   #31145
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,625
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post


This is a prototype of the Tamiya F104. Pretty interesting design for a t-bar car. What I don't understand is, why don't we see more 1:12 t-bar designed chassis' like this? Why do all the current 1:12 scale t-bar cars have the t-bar elevated above the main chassis rather than on the same plane as the main chassis like the Tamiya F1's? Just throwing this out there for discussion...
If I'm not mistaken, one of the previous Corally cars had this type of setup where the rear lower pod plate was actually the T-bar. I'll look for some old pictures to be sure.
EVILGRAFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:37 AM   #31146
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,625
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trips View Post
I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with this part. One damper tube drying out would not affect the car in the way you describe. There's no need for both damper tubes to be identical, in fact the first damper tube cars had only 1 tube.

I don't recall if it's the GenX or Speedmerchant manual that suggests removing one of the tubes and driving the car to check if it's over or under damped, but I've done it often enough to know that there won't be any side to side issues.

Sometimes I'll run 10K in one tube and 1 or 2K in the other... the car feels fine side to side.
I'm no genius, I was just throwing out ideas.
EVILGRAFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #31147
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,625
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX View Post
I'm no genius, I was just throwing out ideas.
Actually, after trying it on my GenX 10, I feel my idea has some merit. The tube with the lube in it pulls out much easier than it pushes in and the other side does nothing. With one side filled and nothing in the other, at least by hand, it seams to rotate easier to one side than the other.

The tubes are smaller on the Genx10 comparably to the 1/12, so that may mean all the difference. I only tried it because my Genx10 tubes needed to be cleaned and refilled anyway. I'm not going to try it on the 1/12.
EVILGRAFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #31148
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mclean, VA
Posts: 3,940
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvince View Post
Probably because of the limited room in a 1/12 scale car, the ideal battery location is where it currently sits on the chassis. I haven't seen a 1/12 scale with the battery in front of the T-bar.

If I recall, AE's first 1/12 scale (12e or 12i) was a similar T-bar design as that F104. It was part of the chassis. That chassis layout also had all the electronics mounted up high. There's virtually no way that would work with today's speeds and grip. Traction roll would be imminent.
I'm thinking with the 1S LiPO being the norm soon, couldn't the t-bar be integrated to be on the same plane as the main chassis (like the F104) and just place the LiPO on top (like the current NIMH 1:12 t-bar layout) with little or no change to the electronics layout? Since the t-bar will most likely be thinner than the main chassis, the 1S LiPO should be able to sit flat on the chassis without interfering with t-bar movement.
Apex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 12:30 PM   #31149
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,630
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

I remember seeing Cliff Lett's enduro 10LSS from years ago. It had the chassis cut out so the t-bar could be mounted flush and the pivot balls mounted on plates above the chassis. This allowed a stick pack on a quick release tray to be mounted across the car for rapid pack changes. Therefore, AE has obviously tried the design yet chose to stick with the bar above the chassis.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 01:17 PM   #31150
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX View Post
Actually, after trying it on my GenX 10, I feel my idea has some merit. The tube with the lube in it pulls out much easier than it pushes in and the other side does nothing. With one side filled and nothing in the other, at least by hand, it seams to rotate easier to one side than the other.

The tubes are smaller on the Genx10 comparably to the 1/12, so that may mean all the difference. I only tried it because my Genx10 tubes needed to be cleaned and refilled anyway. I'm not going to try it on the 1/12.
If you have damper tubes that feel different under compression than extension, then you're correct in that they should be set up the same on each side... I've never noticed any of the damper tubes I've had to act that way, so my comments are based on my experience with tubes that did feel the same under compression and extension.

Sorry for the potentially misleading post...
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 03:18 PM   #31151
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,630
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

As for dampener tubes, there should be some difference. In one direction, the tube is extending which reduces the surface area and results in regressive dampening. In the other direction the surface area would be getting smaller and result in progressive dampening. However, having run single tube cars before I have found any difference to be too small to notice.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 03:26 PM   #31152
Tech Elite
 
chris moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phx AZ
Posts: 3,658
Trader Rating: 85 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvince View Post
If I recall, AE's first 1/12 scale (12e or 12i) was a similar T-bar design as that F104. It was part of the chassis. That chassis layout also had all the electronics mounted up high. There's virtually no way that would work with today's speeds and grip. Traction roll would be imminent.

There was no real t-bar as we know it today in the 12e, the chassis was a single piece of fiberglass with cuts/cutouts in places. There was a brace that was glued to the cneter of the chassis to give it some stiffness, and created the t-bar in effect.
__________________
Sponsered by:

CMDezigns Paint Works
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CM-Dezigns/259989190822177?ref=hl
chris moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 05:37 PM   #31153
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,630
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Bolink had a car with the lower pod plate and t-bar being one piece and flush.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 06:38 PM   #31154
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,667
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
I remember seeing Cliff Lett's enduro 10LSS from years ago. It had the chassis cut out so the t-bar could be mounted flush and the pivot balls mounted on plates above the chassis. This allowed a stick pack on a quick release tray to be mounted across the car for rapid pack changes. Therefore, AE has obviously tried the design yet chose to stick with the bar above the chassis.
Corally 12M had the option to use a stick pack and or saddle pack. The pivots were above the chassis, with the 'T-Bar' flush with the chassis. I've used this car to compete and win our 48min enduro race over the past few years. Allows for a quicker battery change, and for fun, fits an orion lipo pack for some really fast 1/12 scale outside racing.
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 08:24 PM   #31155
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,625
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grenade10 View Post
Corally 12M had the option to use a stick pack and or saddle pack. The pivots were above the chassis, with the 'T-Bar' flush with the chassis. I've used this car to compete and win our 48min enduro race over the past few years. Allows for a quicker battery change, and for fun, fits an orion lipo pack for some really fast 1/12 scale outside racing.
Do you have any pictures of that? Would really like to see it.
EVILGRAFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:56 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0